Annis/Artemis=Arthur?
I've been trying to work up a good peice on this, but I'm having trouble
smoothing out the edges; I guess I must keep repeating that this mother
of all archetypes will not be so easy to decode....
I'm still off by one lecture on Pagan Etymology (word science) but I
though I might present some of the barest form since it reminds me to
'fess up about a couple more.
I am taking Annis to be etymologcially linked to the herb Anise, in some
sense of remediality about the related ailments, for beter or worse.
problems; Annie to me means to think Arteimis and Artemisia (Artemis
Alphea would probably be a good invocation here) becaus for example I
think the name Sweet Annie for te herb Artemisia annua is older than
convention supposes. Given the emphasis on Annis,thoug, I suppose on is
supposed to think of Anise-scented Taragon (Thera/Gon "for fear and
agony? (Or Thera/ Gonos, Fear of castration, figuratively, as paralysis)
The Kalli- and Burr- roots sound like a redoubling of Bear (Kalli- as in
Kallisto, Greek Myths). and so I am experimentally suppoing this is
suposed to indicate he use of bear symbols to help point out or remember
related herbs (Don't know that it would have worked).
The basic idea of pressure on the chest and immobility is like being
squeezed by a large bear (again to Cretans more likely an octopus).
This s a good place to pop up with Artio, a Celtic "bear goddess" whose
single reference that I can find sounds much ike the obvious Artemis.
It is going to sound quite fabulous, I suppose, but when I ran into a
dead end on Artio, I went for the obvious Arthur, thus I have it that
Arthur is a masculinized Artemis, or more properly I suppose an Orion.
Not that it is the be-all end all but perhaps the joke that if a bear
squeezes you to hard, you will be very grail-shaped is a pivotal (That
and Artemis always was kind of a Tomboy).
On the low end of this one, whether or not this Hag happens when your
body is telling you to get up and get a drink may be important.
Feedback, anyone? and BTW, Attention, Please!:
I'm giving myself a lightbulb award for tirelessly evangelizing about
these things but back over at alt.folklore.herbs I read of a recent
Pennyroyal poisoning where this herb I tell people to not even sniff if
you're pregnant was recommended by someone in the form of swilling the
oil which could do a number on anyone.
Thus I ought to bring up that the serotonin in that Walnut I worship is
listed as an abortifacient over at James A. Duke's EthnobotBD/
PhytochemDB. OK, NOW I know why Artemis the Wormwood Goddess is the
Walnut Goddess, Artemis-Carya too, Watch out!!!
Chronos Apollonios Rob
*****
Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:05:30 -0700
Subject: Re: A Clarification (of Chrismas)
A Christmas question? Uh-oh! :-) I'd better know this, I'm supposed to
be a Christmas Priest. ( ja, were is this "Fraternus Saturnii" when us
leibchens need 'em? Herr Karl
Yeah, I get it from Christians constantly that the Chronia or
celebration of Chronos, the original Christmas during the sun's passage
through the appropriate Capricon, was a pagan "feast of the flesh" which
they either jump to the conclusion was a big orgy, or I suppose,
people-eating. I'm not so sure why they seem so convinced about it with
such a sketchy background as they have.
Anyway, the picture I get is that seasonal attitude disorder/ depression
is at its peak around Christmas, so this is when people have always
tried the hardest to stay cheered up. In Turkey today they supposedly
still make a beverage out of Orchid roots. Turkey does not subscribe to
European conventions making the wild collction and sale of these orchids
illegal in hopes of protecting them. Older sources say this is an
anti-depressant
so you can see why they might have once mixed it
into the wine, which can backfire and be a depressant. That's what
alcohol techinically is.
The orchids in question have always been on the verge of perishng,
because, partly, they cross-breed a lot and so there are so many
diffences in them. It drives botanists nuts. It isn't very lkely that
this is relly the tradtion, but the reason that this is called flesh is,
one: that Orchid is an old Greek name for some of a naked man's parts,
which the roots look like, which makes everyone giggle, and more
importantly that the flowers on them look like little people or bears or
different creatures, but they all have the biggest grins on their faces
you have ever seen.
Thus it is enough to just have a picture of them to cheer you up; (the
Orchid society sold me a very good book by Buttler on this.) so I take
it they actually used to make fake ones out of paper and stick them
everywhere to cheer people up. Maybe these critters became the Christmas
Angels on the tree; that is certainly one of Artemis' trees thank you
that people cut down for Christmas, I suppose they don't know why
anymore.
The reason that I think I that I because the main idea that Artemis of
Ephesos communicates to me "Eat Pine Nuts, Drink Pine Dew, and Sit Under
the First Safe Pine Tree You Find Until Help Arrives" ( I don't know if
all pines have edible nuts but it's very hard to find better advice if
you end up in the woods) and the association means that's hard to watch
your kids while you are having this big party, the Chronia, so it is
good to teach children a little survival school in case a cannibal or
other weirdo grabs 'em and drags 'em out in the woods, including having
to do anythng to such a weirdo resembling what poor old Chronos has to
do to his old man, even, in the Myth (Theogony meaning -?-)(I can say
neutered in public after the puppy got neutered right in front of the
tots, can't I?)
Being that this is all they were really up to, it would make St. Paul
the Apostle more of a comedian than a cultural ambasador; maybe the idea
is to make "a joyous noise" (i.e. giggle at the book of Ephesians) as
opposed to getting all depressed and treating life like it wasn't the
most sacred thing of all in anyone's book. I mean, the new Chronia, i.e.
Christmas, is pretty cool, but sometimes I miss the Old one. I would,
wouldn't I?
Chronos Apollonios
Re-Incarnated Preist of Chronos and Apollo
Ancient Author of "101 Gnarly Things You Can Do To A Naked Wierdo With A
Pine Cone If You Gotta"
Wishing All
Peace on Earth and Merry Christmas
(and better cannibal jokes!)
*****
Subject: Clarifying Christmas
Hooboy! Should have just said "Go ask a Theologian" but that wouldn't
be very nice (even though they probably are often better students of
history than me, if not better interpreters, and it might not even hurt
to ask one) when you write such kind things.
I have always heard Christians refer to this as "The Saturalia, Feast of
the flesh". (All Christians I hear also say Roman Diana and not Artemis,
and sound funny saying the Greeks worshipped a Roman Goddess) The
Saturnalia of course is the Roman name for the Greek Chronia and Saturn
is Roman for Greek Chronos. I don't bother to distinguish Cronos from
Chronos or anything similar, even Karya- an Artemis last name, as
others, I think they are some of the east different names for the same
thing I meet, thinking Artemis might be Arthur and all that.
Shy Chronos must be hiding in Zeus' beard! We hear of little of this guy
that they tell me Italy was once called Saturnia in honor of. Much of
this, including the Orchid stuff, I have to make up as I go along trying
to think along the appropriate lines, like using the myths as a
framework. (That is the formula I learned one day reading The Greek
Myths by Robert Graves and when I got to the one about Narcissus,
there's a foonote that made me say, "Oh I get it, (Echo is hard of
hearing and didn't catch all of what someones say, so a remedy is given,
if not a good one because Daffodils are poisonous). these are riddles
about practical things maybe, too", and the rest as they say, is
history.
Lempriere's "Classical Dictionary makes some rare reference under both
Chronus, (Saturn or Time), celebrated on the Greek Island of Rhodes, and
Cronia as a festival at Athens in honor of Saturn,
I don't think it says when it was celebrated, and he doesn't give the
usual reference to Classical Literature.
There is more write up of Chronos as Saturn in the same work, and the
Saturnalia is discussed somewhat too. "Feast of the Flesh" is not
mentioned her; his sources include Seneca and Cicero.
Interestingly, Frazier, in the 864 page (short) version of the Golden
Bough, says "Chronus, whom the Phonecians call Israel.."(Oh, Kohser
Cannibal Jokes now? :-) Sorry, no Kosher recipies ! :-) :-) :-) )
(Israel is more the child-sacrificer than the child-eater that would-be
Zeus eater Chronos is made out to be, as described here).
I am enclosing, hopefully, a link to a pretty poor picture of one of
these "Smiley,:-) Happy Little Vegetable Creatures". It just does not do
it justice, but it was handy. (I'm into Voodoo now and I just hang
shrunken heads on my Christmas Tree, hee hee)
"The beter the book, the worse the Index, be the whole of the Law", so
this is all I could find for the moment.
Peace
Chronos Apollonios
*****
Subject: Passover Herbs
My service's "click here of the day" is for kids about Passover, which
got me wondering. I have never seen so many links beween Hebrew and
Greek/ English in my life, I'm such a cultural virgin- now I think
Matza and Moxa are the same word!)
I never bought any of those books on herbs of the Bible and Biblical
Gardens; can someone tell me more than the Zilch, Zip, Zero I'm getting
outta the engine, about the Maror, (Genus and Species) both ancient and
modern, and the customs/ prohibitions
associated with them. Are there any forbidding women the bitter herbs,
or forbidding them to women with child?
I am also interested in the history of the word Maror. How old is it,
and which came first, Maror or Marrubium? (or Maru?-Origanum sp.) How
might it also be connected with Horseradish, Armoracia species (i.e. is
ArMORAcia "official"?) that I am reading is used in modern times.
Is lettuce a modern adaptation or was it always a bitter herb?
I also have some persons asking me about sources for Biblical Sages
(some half dozen although Salvia pomifera, judiaca, candelabra and
palaestina I have found) and Wormwoods (i.e. sources of seed). Any
suggestions?
*****
Subject: Re: Passover Herbs
I take it this means that you don't know of any prohibition
involving women or women with child? I am expecting some.
I hope you will not take the following personally, or be offended
in any way, but the reason that I am asking is that not only are the
bitter herbs I've read about in Plants of the Bible books, Wormwood and
Horehound regaded by many authorities as capable of causing miscarriage,
but there is similar being said about the Horseradish, also, along with
marked difference of opinion, when I looked it up on the search engines.
It is not even impossible that this may extend to different lettuces.
Perhaps I had better say little more than that I do not
understand what business a God who does not want the sun to set on
someone's anger has ordaining a commemoration of bitterness of captivity
anymore than ordaining the display of Swastikas in a synagogue, or that
I am tempted to feel that the strong repetition of the theme of loss of
progeny in the appropriate passages of literature may be something of a
hint.
I personally feel it is not only anti-Egytian but anti-Semitic for
me to take these texts literally, as well a to refrain from comment. (I
cannot concieve of a slave mentality being genuinely present amongst
such persons; rather, the state of health of both the youngest, the
oldest, and belabored, in regards to long journeys, seems enough to
create a state of permanent residence rather than captivity.) The
Egyptians as I know them are above this sort of thing, but are neither
above jesting to that effect.
I aware that rather literally, almost every other culture on earth
openly recognizes the use of bitter herbs as tonics/ stimulants to be
used for stamina before or while on long journeys, the pregnant
excepted.
Perhaps the authors of the Sacred literature n qustion are making
an underhanded point that he who does not grow his own and know his own,
that is, endeavor to explore God's providence, may not only risk
enslavement, but risk inexplcable afflctions as well. Or perhaps it was
written in a time when everyone knew better...
For more information on bitter tonics and how they operate, that
a pregnant woman might not even want to taste them, please refer to “A
Dictionary of Modern Herbalism” by Simon Mills.
I take it you had Pesach then and not Pascht after all; :-) then
again maybe they tested this stuff on cats. Keep in mind I have met
innumerable Christians, none of whom are wiling to explain to me whether
"Jewish" is a race or a religion; they just dutifully go on about
putting Wormwood in the bread, regardless of relevant medical
information, so again, begging a thousand pardons for my ignorance,
which tastes also quite bitter, incidentally.
I would still like to know more.
A little troubled,
ChroniApolloni@webtv.net
Winner of 47 Lightbulb Awards for Constantly Being a Mother Hen, and For
Not Wanting to See Herbs Made Illegal for Citizens to Own.
*****
Subject: Re: Occ. Etym: Pascht= Pesach???
Okay, maybe someone should remind me of the hermetic tradition of the
"Green Language", and breifly summerize Fulcanelli's "Mysteres de
Cathederales"
(You're saying I'm not flying my little ship of ignorance alone in
persuing these word-history notions, but in my assuming the technique
would be news to anyone? Probably, but one never knows what might go
unsaid, especially without the sometimes non-existant accents necessary
to mangle some of these words sufficiently to milk meaning from them).
The reason I wonder most, perhaps, is that since the Greeks are not
above casting Posiedon as the unlikely feline, nor Diktyanna , Di + ikthys,
"Goes with fish", roughly, that perhaps we have not been spared from an
innocuous jest about preparing a Passover feline, perhaps in the in the
interst of a joyous noise. For your synchronicity list, I suppose you
could add that the kid's site in question has a lovely glossary, ending
in peculiar remarks about whether tigers are kosher. Depends on where
you live, I suppose... :-)
*****
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997
Subject: Re: J.S. Bach and Numerology
Was it Leadbeater/ Besant, "Thoughforms", or Harold Burr kind of stuff,
or both that descibe being able to esoterically perceive a perfect star
when the final chord of one of Bach's Peices is played? It has been a
long time since I saw it, obviously. Maybe I have heard someone affilate
this with the work of Chialdni (sic?) also, where sound vibrations form
various patterns on vibrating plates?
*****
Subject: Hellenic and Roman Incursions
Re: Erosion of indigenous religion by Hellenic and Roman incursions...
Being raised in a house where "s.o.b." is a term of endearment, and
schooled on famous murals of non-existant Egyptain queens who weight two
tons (belly button? hell, even her knees are "innies"!) and lasso ten
Nubian slaves by the neck at once (oh, sure (g) but it really reminds me
of the cartoons my friends and I used to draw of each other in school,
with steamrollers and Iron Maidens, and...who'd guess we were friends if
you dug them up a hundred years later?) you'd better...
Watch out, next I'll be trying to respectfully tell you that these
Hellenistic and Roman thingies never happened either. I got into this a
wee bit over how the Scots wailed the tar out the Romans, when the Roman
surprise attack was abruptly ended by their cries of pain as Romans
blundered into some Scotch Thistle.
My problem with this was that I was sure the Romans had already had this
woosie tendency driven out of them by stoically taking their
nettle-whippings to stay warm, without whining and wincing, and all that
(I also have heard they were Into S&M, same difference, giggle). This kind of
dubious history sure makes me think of fathers who like to pull the
bullfaeces over the eyes of the kids, and then somehow get into a
socially uncomfortable position when they think about retracting it. (go
in a redneck bar and ask about "the" war (any) sometime too: "I got my
257th Purple Heart when my head was blown clean off...and it took the
entire 485th air evac to put it back on
I think the hidden moral was IF this ever had happened, tthe Scots would
have seen the shadows move against the nearly white thistles, and it
would have proceeded thereafter as told. (I plant silvery Artemisias so
the Lamia doesn't sneak up on me a night, tee hee hee) To me, this is
why the Romans never did.
Of course I come from a people who seem too preoccupied with whether or
not the Charlemagnian sport of planting Houseleeks on your roof will
keep away lightning or not, that they seem to forget to talk aboout
whether or not this practice will prevent the whole village from burning
in under an hour as fire tries jumping from one rooftop to another.
Return to Chronos Chronicles Index
Return to Home On Olympus Index
Home
visitors since April 25, 1998
Get your own Free Home Page