Had 4 weeks in India. Did a lot of research beforehand, read and used Thorn Tree a lot. Picked up many valuable bits of info from here, want to repay that with an honest account of my trip.

Never once in Thorntree or other internet or book sources though did I find anyone willing to write the truth about India. Well, I will. The truth is India is an extremely difficult place to travel, and not much fun. There is little enjoyment, relaxation or pleasure, it is more of an experience. Kind of like going through hell climbing a mountain for the view, except when you get there, there is no view. Well, I suppose there are memories of how amazing it all was, and a strong feeling of "I'm glad I live here".

Read the introduction in LP where they describe the frustration and difficulties. This is no understatement.

It is extremely hard to travel and when you get to places, they aren't that great. Everything is in decay and is not looked after, pollution is awful. The worst aspect though is the constant non-stop scams and rip-off attempts that you just can't avoid. There is a whole industry around ripping off tourists. It is very difficult to ever meet normal Indians, though we met a few and they were very interesting. We had constant trouble with transport, ie trains 11 hours late, bus gets hit by a truck, our train coach cancelled at the last minute, nightmares trying to buy tickets etc.

I have been through Egypt, China, Turkey and Mexico and found them much more pleasant and easier places to travel than India. Also far more worthwhile in terms of what you see and do. I actually enjoyed those places, I can't say I have fond memories of India. Whilst I was in India there were very few tourists due to S11 and the trouble with Pakistan so perhaps those of us who were there copped the full brunt of a desperate tout and scam industry and that has clouded my judgement.

Every westerner I met was suffering and complaining as much or more than we were. Many weren't as well prepared and had been scammed endlessly.

A lot of people, particularly on this site, romanticise India. They forget all the hard stuff and concentrate on the interesting and colourful. It is true that much is amazing, engrossing and extraordinary. The question is, is it all worth it? I would tend to say not really. It is like there is s secret club of people who have been to India who only tell prospective tarvellers that it is "interesting". Then when you get back they listen to your stories and agree how much they hated it. Why didn't they tell you beforehand? Because everybody romanticises, remembers the good bits only etc.

People reading this will think I must be some kind of arsehole who just couldn't take it but I assure you I am an experienced traveller and was well able to handle the difficulties, I avoided any major incidents and I am always very pleasant when dealing with people. I just got really sick of all the rip-offs and endless bureaucracy. The attractions aren't that great, the scenery is nothing special and the food is mostly very poor. I have had much better Indian food in England and Australia. Of course that is Punjab food, not real Indian food. Real Indian food is not too flash.

The worst place was Agra, the best places were Varanasi and Mumbai. Goa was not bad, nothing super-dooper though. Enjoyed Jaipur, Udaipur was ok. Delhi has some good attractions but the pollution is hell. Highlight was Bhandavargh Tiger Park where we saw 2 tigers. Also enjoyed Khujaraho. Various forts and temples were interesting, but it got a bit repetitive.

If you go to India, be prepared to put up with a lot of hassle. You can't be too prepared with information. The LP really was an excellent guide, many recommendations for places to stay and restaurants spot on.

Go for the experience, just don't expect to have a lot of fun or to relax. Don't expect to see really great attractions or meet a lot of nice people. I think it helps if you are quite thick-skinned (I'm not) and assertive.

As Winston Churchill said of Calcutta, I'm glad I have seen it, chiefly because it will be unnecessary for me to see it again.

you didn't think it was all worth while. Cause it was for me. Even if it was difficult and frustrating very often. Beeing a woman in India, made my stay even harder. But, after a few hour, I met with other travellers, saw and experience so much, had fun, ect. And it made me forget at the end of the day, all the difficulties, and actually got to laugh about it. So, I came back from India with good memories overall, and I can't wait to go back...But I did hate Agra!

i agree with OP
it was ok to see it , but not that great. Of course i had good time , but i mostly have good time when traveling. They say you eighter love India or hate it. for me it was just so so , I have seen better places, holier cities, greater ruins. Funny thing , india was only fun when i could get away from it all ( people , scams etc) in a villa in rajistan. that i liked, it was quiet , nice view and nobody tried to scam me. but question remains: why people get so emotional and angry when others dont agree with their opinion of india? i havent seen so much anger when talking about other countries.

Before you left. Were you anonymous?

I'm one of those people that have had a great time in India, after 2 two-month trips in India and as a solo, female traveler.

However, if I would have talked to you before you left, I would have told you that it can be very difficult travel. I talked to my Indian friends before I left so I knew what to expect. Also, I have an attitude: India is what it is, the good, the bad and the ugly, and I'm going to make it work for me!

I've never been scammed or it just wasn't material to me. I'm just not going to worry about an extra 100 rupees. One has to steal one’s self to the grimness. Otherwise, they, like you may have a miserable trip.

You say that you researched your trip. I contend that you did not do enough planning. Unless you are extremely flexible, the non-stop "issues" will wear you down.

That is why I pre-book all internal flights and trains. I've never stood in line for a ticket. I estimate that I paid a 25% premium for that comfort. Flights are often late, primarily due to weather (fog in Delhi.) Try flying in and out of San Francisco where I live! Yes, trains are sometimes late. However, out of 20-odd train trips in India, it has never been later that 3 or so hours. Sorry about your 11 hour experience. Highly unusual.

I believe that if you go with Attitude, the proper amount of planning (pre-booking transportation), spend a little more that budget (pleasant surroundings and good food), hire guides (who will also protect you from the riff-raff at some sights) ... you are well on your way to having "fun and relaxation".

No. Every day was not always pleasant for me in India. The 8-10 hours on horrible, dangerous roads (taxi, never a bus!) to a site were not any fun. People talking to you non-stop when you are outside your hotel room. Etc.

However, I've found the quieter beaches, great guides, lovely (not too expensive) hotels and some extraordinary people that left me relaxed, yet energized when I returned from India.

What I am saying is really for first time travelers to India. The first trip is too much of a shock for most of us!

OP, thanks for writing with your thoughts. Sorry it wasn't a great trip for you.

PS Calcutta is my favorite big city in India.

Sorry to hear you had such a rotten time furry.
Sometimes you just can't help bad luck and it sure sounds like the gods decided to play nasty tricks on you for the whole 4 wks.
BTW
You seem to have crammed quite a bit of travelling into a relatively short time.
That might be part of the problem, as India can be a real bitch when you're on a tight schedule!
Never mind, perhaps in a few months, when the shock of India wears off a bit, you'll fall prey to that mysterious and fatal fascination that draws many of us back for yet another try.
If not, well at least you've seen parts of the place and won't have to die wondering "should I have gone".

you now GET INDIA- and why so many of us veterans come to this board and cynically respond to those who haven't been...and how cute that you think you are the first to post this- I posted a nice 10 point list about 3 years ago that stayed on this board for ages- and i wasn't the first.

the thing is- you are pissed off now and feeling icky - but you have lived it. for fun- rent "holy smoke" for the first 15 minutes when kate winslet's mom goes to find her in india...

there used to be a great india rules of the road on this site...

and if you get a chance to watch "amazing race" you will laugh with tears when the contestants reach delhi and think they are the first people to ever have an indian cab driver who does not stop beeping his horn.

it's cool to want to wanr people - but it's not cool to put down a whole country on this board.

peace. and i'll bet you'll find it hard to stay away- india has a way of sticking to you...like when you step in poop.

So, so, true. The point is not that India's difficult. The funny thing is that the "difficulty" of India is the only thing I really enjoyed. It was a challenge, mental and physical, and it made me strong. But the fact is India is "ugly". I am quite willing to endure hardship-but the reward just tisn't there is India. There is so much "ugliness" in India. The cities are victims of the worst excesses of industrialism-smog, pollution, ugly buildings, plus decay and neglect.

When i traavel i want to be "uplifted", to have stirring and profound experiences, basically-an encounter with the "sublime". I want beauty and charm and the exotic.

India was NOT exotic and had so little of the "sublime" in it.

The only "reward" of my trip to Inida was the sense of accomplishment and stregth i got. If you can endure India, well, thats something.

But you mirrored my thoughts exactly on one point. When i arrived in India i couldn't beleive that none of this was talked about before i arrived. There should be a HUGE section in LP about the "horrors" of India. It is not possible to underestimate the shock i felt. Why had no one told me? Why was i not warned?

The general sentiment that India is bloated with pollution is accurate. I hate when travelers try to down-play that and take some "I love India" moral-high-ground.
However the old cliche' that the beauty is somewhat beneath the surface applies. India is a place where a romantic imagination can go wild. India itself is rather wild and free ofcourse. Too much time in the trains and along the highways is certainly wearing though it is true!

What is great too about India is there is nowhere like it and it makes a "journey" of it no matter how much of a trip it is!

Must be 2 Indias. I always have a ball and would love to scrounge my way to another trip..

Edwardseco

OP , too bad you did not like it. I for one quit the United States to live back home ,despite everything that the United States offers. So I hope you realize that there are other things that one likes India for.

When travelling even I dislike the hordes that descend on you and the difficulties in reserving tickets etc...( I did like the USA on this count). But I love travelling which is about meeting people , seeing new sights and experiencing a whole new life , a whole new culture etc...and I must say that India is so diverse that as an Indian I experience this time and again even now. Yes, it is magical. I enjoy these aspects of being a traveller so much that it is so easy to ignore the minor hassles.

Monterey Carmel has its own beauty and so does Santa Barbara. Goa ,Varkala, Pondicherry , Harihareshwar, Sindhudurg and Gokarna now are magical in a different way.
They bespeak a fisherman's way of life , a temple beachtown, a seafort town etc....did you look for this ? did you find this ?

Perhaps you were not able to ignore the difficulties in logistics (pay more to get convenience on that count)to really enjoy and experience your travel.Again,did you make an effort to learn how to master the rail system , the airtravel system and how to get a good cheap room ? How to brush aside the agents who approach you ?If you had you would be less unhappy with those aspects.

If you were on the beaten track of LP , I feel sorry for you.

If you do come again to India go to Chandigarh, Baroda,Amarkantak,Poona,Mysore,Pondicherry and live in these cities for a week each. I am sure you will have a different experience.

I do hope you take some of the views that have come up here and visit India again. I sincerely wish you a better time.

It is a pretty large club that likes India , hope you join it !!!

Wishing you and yours a very happy new year 2002.

Namaskar!

lp moderators have begun to think , the best thing in a long time

I do not want to suggest that furry's impressions are not valid, but I have to say my experience is very different. Sure, it is dirty and polluted, but so is China. But there is beauty, and fun, and relaxation, and really wonderful people to be found. Last night I went to musical recital- it was sublime. I have seen beautiful old buildings, bustling markets, and, thanks to some of the people I have met, experienced something of ordinary life here.

I have also travelled extensively in China, and found it much more difficult in many ways than India- the crowds are just as bad, the trains are often late and uncomfortable, the roads horrendous and dangerous, the cities smoggy and polluted, and no-one speaks English. But I loved China.

I guess what I am trying to say is that travel, for me, is not about seeing the sights, or even "having fun and relaxing" (although I always seem to, anyway), but about experiencing life as it is, and as it could be. If I am occasionally overcharged 100 rupees, that seems a small price to pay.
Peace and happy travels in the future.

The Lp (despite its many ommissions due to lack of local savvy) is thorough in its guidance to foreign visitors..and many, many TT posters Indian and foreign have talked about the good/bad stuff too..perhaps you chose to believe only the good stuff and hoped that the entire country would turn into an all paid 5* caribbean holiday resort for your benefit....well, NO country fulfils EVERY travellers expectations; to assume otherwise is infantile.

We Indian travellers also encounter ALL the hazards you have, but manage to also seek out and experience those moments which are truly magical about this land..We have warned you so many times at the risk of boring ourselves silly, that Delhi and other metros are really awful...did ya listen????
Anyway, this experience should now make you appreciate your surroundings better specially as you are the beneficiary of the world's biggest scams (Globalisation and the unfair terms of the WTO) which the rich countries club uses to keep poor countries poor and squalid...sleep tight and forget about India..your dollars/pounds only represented 0.5% of the total revenue from tourism to India.
If you wanna DO something other than whinge...join the campaign against 3rd World Debt.
take Care

nice to see so many people defend what is a truly beautiful and personally challenging place to be in. My India is GREAT! as they say on their 'busses'

What OP said, it is all true. But some of us, somehow, see something else as well, in addition to all he said. That is the biggest mystery of India and what keeps me coming back all these years. If you do try to warn posters about how difficult it is, you get flamed by many of the fanatics on this board. If the truth doesn't scare you away, then you probably have the right attitude of enjoy your trip.

Furry, just in case you missed it, here is a clipping of another post by an anonymous poster on January 14th. Seems to give your post some credibility. I think a LOT of people would concur with your assessment of India. Thanks for telling it like it was.

"I just recently returned from what I thought was a well-planned trip to India. I did the Dehli - Agra - Jaipur triangle 'tour'. Before going, I read practically every single post on this branch for several weeks, steeling myself for the scams and other unpleasantries that all of you had kindly written about. However, I thought that there must have been something special to India that would draw so many travellers back despite the scams, touts, ripoffs, filth, poverty, culture, history, etc etc. So I went looking for the positives.

I saw a bear doing tricks by the roadside to Agra, for an old guy who had him by the nose on a string. In his other hand was a string tied to the neck of a severely disabled human being stricken with severe polio.

I saw a child wiping his ass and then licking and sucking on his fingers. That kind of blended in to the usual roadside filth of rubbish piles and cattle feeding, tuck tucks spewing black smoke.

Every once in a while, my driver would ask me for more money, and would routinely take me into rest stops along the way where he was surely getting a commission on every limca I bought and consumed.

One week and I had had it. I was going to go on and visit Varanasi but just ran out of interest. Did not want to endure another concentrated wave of touts demanding that I buy firewood for cremations, or flowers to throw into the ghats. I lost the gumption to stand by the wayside to watch processions of people carrying corpses to the ghats. Somehow, it just didn't seem worth it. The yamuna river, was explained to me to be so polluted that it supposedly cannot support any form of life, was enough.

I'll never return. The trip from the moment I landed in Delhi, the terrible taxi ride to Paharganj in the middle of the night, etc etc to the disappointment of the taj mahal, and so on... It was a tough, unpleasant time. I got what was probably Dehli belly on my second day and I couldn't shake the runs. I hated having to look out for survivable toilets and fighting off touts everywhere along the way. Everyone, it seemed was trying to get a piece of the action separating me from my money. Couldn't trust anybody. Shopping was also an ordeal. Things were either poor quality or fake. Food was on the whole pretty lousy but I suppose nothing looks appetizing when one is dehydrated from dysentry.

I gave it my best try and I can honestly say that I really cannot see what it is that draws all of you to keep going back. You must all like pain and suffering!
India is way overrated. The Taj Mahal- pretty but not worth the time and effort to see it.

So all you great India travellers: what did I miss? Maybe I was in the wrong part of india?
My unforgetable image was of several dogs by a road pulling apart what looked like part of a human corpse."

If you went to all those places in 4 weeks, I'm not surprised you hated it. When I went there in '96 I generally took my time spending on average about 3 weeks in places that I liked, sometimes longer. It's one country that you dont want to rush around in as the actual travel is damn hairy, no denying that.

Your point boils down to something I have always objected to in the LP mythos of India, which is that it fails to recognize how difficult it is to get around on the cheap. Or perhaps that should read how difficult it has become, since my wizened hippie friends assure me that in the old days when the LP poobahs were still hirsute young bucks it was possible to swan around in style for a few rupees a day. Nowadays the pressures on even the cheapest modes of transport, accomodation, restaurants, etc. are so great that every dollar you save translates into about two hours off your lifespan wasted waiting with or without extreme aggravation and possible danger thrown in for good measure. It's hard enough for low-income Indians to deal with after a lifetime's experience, but when Jane and Jimmy Whitebread come bouncing off the plane and expect to live for six months on $1000 pounds with all the dope they want and end up spending two thirds of their time on black-belching buses trying to hold down bellyfuls of cheap dosas, it's small wonder they don't exactly cherish the experience. It's not India's fault - there is no place left on earth that's safe, cheap, interesting, accessible and easy to get around. I, for one, doubt there ever really was such a place. You want to be happy in India? Take every mid-range cost estimate in the LP guides, or those based upon them, and multiply by 5. If that is your minimum budget, you can establish a balance between time and expense that makes a long trip worthwhile. Hire taxis wherever you can, avoid the big cities for more than two days at a stretch, and find a nice place in the country to stay every other week or so. Do not try to see everything in one trip, but do try to remember something from the one you're on.

Our homes are flooded with blood while the tyrant
wanders abroad.

You're right - nothing can prepare you for the shock of India. My first 20 minutes in India were the most magical and intense monents I ever had travelling. It was awesome. The key is you absolutely can not apply your western logic and standards to India. They simply do not work. Sorry, as I know that this is a sub-conscious blow to a lot of people's egos. My first week in India, a 10 hour car trip turned into 2 days. Big deal! That's what I went for, to experience India, not look at it from a comfortable, scheduled, protected point of view. I hate to sound philosophical, but the point of going to India is to BE IN INDIA, and that means not being in your home country or any where else you've been, mentally or emotionally. To me, the pollution in London is just as aweful as Delhi, and the homeless people on the streets no less sad. The key to India is surrendering to the rythm and vocabulary of a very different place. Dealing with touts, not getting scammed is actually pretty easy. It's much easier to look straight ahead and say 'bas, chello', than it is to get rid of a telemarketer calling you at home every night. I appreciate your cander, and just wait, it'll start to creep back up on you, after you get over the hurt. And next time, don't try to go to so many places. It just doesn't work. Pick one area, not too many cities at first, and just go be there. Be open, be humble, and let India take you for a ride.

"Walk the Earth, Have Adventures"

Your experience in India -- and yes, it is an experience -- needs time to steep and even a few months isn't enough. I've been there three times in twenty years and have travelled most of the Subcontinent, and been very tired while travelling the Subcontinent and very glad to return home. I'm older now and I don't think I'll be returning to India again, at least not to travel as I did before. But I have the memories and I enjoy them a great deal -- refreshing them is one of the reasons I visit this board -- and I suspect that over time you too will come to appreciate your travails in India as one of the peak experiences of your life.

Wow, lots of responses, thanks for your thoughts.

Just to clarify a couple of things

1. Money was not an issue and I wasn't expecting to get some luxury holiday at bargain prices. I had no complaint about costs or about an extra few rupees here and there. I was willing to spend more money for convenience and felt that it was worth it as a small sum to me was a lot to others. The issue was the scams and transport issues that frustrate and annoy you, rather than just take your money. ie. driver deliberately went the wrong way so that we arrived in Khujaraho at night, taking 4 hours longer than it should have, so that he could try to scam us into a particular hotel and requiring a massive argument to get to our own hotel. Just was unpleasant. What about the prepaid taxi driver who after 11km stopped 1km out of Colva demanding more money for the final km. Tried talking rationally, he was insistent. I said we would walk then and report him to the traffic police. He responded by following us all the way into town yelling and nearly running us off the road. Endless other examples of people being difficult, unhelpful, unpleasant etc, generally treating us as walking targets.

2. Many posters are probably right, we probably tried to do too much in that amount of time. But I don't like sitting around on my arse all day. I found I only needed a few days in each location, then I would get itchy feet and want to move on to the next place. Thus I suppose we spent a lot of time in transit which, including the organisation of it, was usually the worst part.

3. I did do a lot of research and planning and reading, you would be surprised. I read many books by Salman Rushdie and other high brow authors, as well as low brow stuff, I did watch the Amazing Race when in India, and I read a lot on the web. Nothing took me by surprise, except the overall feeling that in sum total it was not worth it.

4. What is actually that good in India? What makes it all worthwhile? I can put up with a lot of shit, for something worth it at the end, but shit for shits sake? That is basically India. I am re-reading "Are You Experienced" and it is right on the mark. Seems most travellers go for the cheap dope, not an attraction for me. As one poster wrote ""When i traavel i want to be "uplifted", to have stirring and profound experiences, basically-an encounter with the "sublime". I want beauty and charm and the exotic""

5. Look, not everything was bad, I did have some good times but main point remains, bad substantially outweighed good

6. I suppose it annoyed me how lazy the Indians were, particularly the men. Read "May You Be the Mother of 100 Sons" for a gruelling understanding of the lives of women in India. I saw ample evidence of women constantly working and men sitting around. It annoyed how they let everything decay and be so awful. No one cared, there was so little national pride, except in the issue of Kashmir (what a brilliant diversion for the govt to avoid tackling poverty, health and education) and the cricketer Sachin Tendulkar. But what about the community? I hated seeing all the Hindi video clips filmed somewhere in a western country, an aspirational location for Indians, showing green parks, clean streets, shopping malls etc. Why don't they clean up just one damn park in India and film them there? The hanging gardens in Mumbai (supposed tourist attraction) are full of rubbish and the usual decay.

5. It annoyed me how the upper and middle classes were so dismissive of the poor. It annoyed me how all embracing the rich were of the tackier elements of western culture. Many Indians I met on trains or wherever were very interested in money and emigration to some western country. In "Are You Experienced" this is very well done with the character Ranj (Indian raised in England) who describes succinctly the Indian view of money and tourists.

6. The money, money, me first viewpoint of Indians was not at all spiritual, only a deluded traveller could conclude that.

i do agree with OP
india was discousting
full of freaks on tight budget smoking pot therfore relaxed, shit , some people were so gone they walked barefoot even to the toilets.

gosh, y do you'll curse india so much? And mr furry, if you thought that a little money to you would be a lot to someone else : WOULDNT IT BE BETTER TO HAVE PAID A FEW RUPEES EXTRA AND SAVE YOURSELF (AND YOUR LIFE ALSO) THE EMBARRASMENT OF BEING FOLLOWED BY THE AUTO RICKSHAW CHAP? ARE YOU SURE THAT YOU ARE NOT A TROLL? YOU ARE WIERD. TOTALLY INSANE. MOST PROBABLY DREAMING AND WRITING SOME STORIES. NEXT TIME DONT MAKE SUCH A HECTIC TRIP, IF EVER YOU ACCTUALLY MADE THAT TRIP IN THE FIRST PLACE! HA HA FUNNY. YOU SURELY MISSED OUT A LOT!

1. you do not know how to deal with scammers and scams . period. your experience is at best had once or twice. you seem to always have it - implies you do not know how to deal with it.

2.if it was in sum total not worth it to you, so be it. the country cannot please everyone and everyone does not like india. most do and it is a pretty large fan club out there, but there are some like you. so be it. it cannot be helped.
and it does not matter. it is okay.

3.indian men are not lazy. the mother of 100 mistakes is an amazing book. i would not touch it with a ten foot bargepole. it is one woman's interpretation and in the opinion of most indians, not even worthy of comment.

this particular point of yours , with the other views , gives the impression you have not been able to understand india. i would suggest , it is very very early days for you.

4.we are dismissive of the poor as in - it is a part of the surrounding . not as in they are unworthy people. to your comparison of a pinkred beggarlike person being treated very well :

the foreigners are a curiosity including the poor travellers - for 1b. Indians there is a trickle of 1 million - low trickle.Some may be meeting one for the first time in their life. Some may never meet again. Imagine the curiosity and the desire to make friends. The basic image of a industrialized pinkred based country is that of a rich country , hence people who have never travelled there cannot figure out a poor person or a perverted dope addict.

i give some of these dope addicts a piece of my mind - almost called the cops on a particularly abusive one. he apologized.

the spirituality is there the money not. in your case it is the opposite.

the basic spirituality is there so at one time one can say no to money and a materialistic life - look at the increasing number of indians returning.

if you feel it is not worth it , so be it mate. it is not for you. nothing wrong with it. to each his own experience. you have conveyed your disappointment and unhappiness in a very civil fashion unlike some others on this board. Hence , we wish all the very best and hope that at one point of time you will be happy here. We shall be very happy to receive you.

Cheers !
 

I agree 100% with you OP. I had been to India just once and that was it; for similar reasons to the ones you've articulated here. I know a felow who goes at least once every two years to nake him feel thankful for his comparatively rich and comfortable life in the West. It is a shame that India has to serve such a purpose.
I have been to China on several occaisions (very hard travel) but India is a dirty shaved armpit in comparison.
One thing that really remains from my trip to India, as you have similarly said, is how the so-called monuments and 'must sees' were huge disappointments.
If the Taj Mahal is the jewel of all Indian attractions, then I would have to say that there isn't much worth seeing in India.
Myanmar, the plains of Pagan, Angkor wat and Angkor Thom in Cambodia are far more impressive and pleasant places for people to travel to. Like Thailand has become for cheap backpackers, India as a travel destination is far over rated.

5 and 6 of your re-post #23..you are absolutely correct (Its what I hate about India as well)..nevertheless, India is changing for the better (in the 15 months since I came back after 23 years in Europe/USA)...

Hari Balzac!!!!! I will even get to like you at this rate(which should piss u off no end)..1st class post.

If anyone is actually still reading this- I would like to say that India is so huge and vast that you are bound to see good and bad.

I experienced endless hassles and pollution, ugly sites and then great beauty- like anywhere else on earth.

My first hours in India were in Madurai and though it is a bustling temple town it was colorful and fun and simple to navigate. In less than a day i saw two temple ceremonies- talked to locals, saw a museum, nearly stepped in cow poop, nearly ran into a cow horn, had clothing made. I would return to that town in a second.

Then there was the afternoon bumping along the road between Jaipur and Samode...but so what?

My point is, I guess, is that everyone on this board KNOWS what India is like but that doesn't mean India is bad- it was just harder than you thought it would be.

I am willing to bet that you will find yourself returning one day. You'll see...

I recently spent 3 months in India and can't WAIT until the day I can get back. Everything you said about the difficulties are entirely true, but there is one thing that I took into consideration after spending hours and hours on TT and that is "DON'T TRY TO DO TOO MUCH". Like one comment that "I spent 2 months seeing India from North to South"... since traveling is sooooooooo difficult in India, mainly because of the vast distances (unless you can afford to fly everywhere) it is better to concentrate on a smaller area and throroughly get to know and enjoy it. The Himalayas are more than I ever could dream of or imagine and I spent 7 weeks in Ladakh and then Dharamsala before heading off to Rajastan for 3 weeks. THAT was very difficult with the long taxi rides from city to city. But the beauty of India is there. You have to look beyond everything that we all know exists there. That is not what we go to see. And even if you are "scammed", so big deal...you paid 100 rupees for a rickshaw that should have cost 30. How much money is that! For anyone who is interested in my 2 cents, India must be done very slowly to really be appreciated...it is a true experience...not just a place to take a trip to and see as much as possible. And any true experience takes time to absorb. I just am waiting now for my next chance to enjoy my next Indian expereince in some other part of the country. I'm sure it will prove just as wonderful as my first trip.

Most smiles are started by another smile!

I didn't have this experience. I had hard times, but I didn't let it ruin the trip. I have a few points:

1. Visitors really on the cheap don't get so much attention. If you were throwing around money for taxi rides and private cars cross country, you are setting yourself up for the worst treatment.

2. "going slow" is common advice about India, but I say keep moving unless you are hanging out. I prefer long trains rides every third night or so. Sorry, it ain't PC but I refuse to have down time in India in a dump.

3. Starting in Bombay or Delhi is a mess. I started in Calcutta and think that is a better location. And don't arrive for the first time in India at some awful time in the middle of the night. The cheap flight isn't worth it. Arrive in late morning so you have plenty of time to assess the transportation and lodging options.

4. It's a fine point, but it seems that Europeans are the only ones who go for the cheap drugs. And maybe the Japanese.

I am of Indian origin born and raised in the U.S. and I sympathize with your viewpoint to a certain extent.

However, some of the points you raise about India are so true of the U.S.
- It is ALL about money here. The U.S. is the most class-conscious country. Americans who don't realize this are delusional.

- Thanksgiving/Christmas and other social/family gatherings the women do all the work while the men watch football and eat chips.

- Life for many American women is hard - they're expected to juggle job, kids and household responsibilities like some superwoman.

- This country is wealthy, can afford to spend millions on missiles and parades, yet so many people just walk by homeless men and women without a second thought.

I have just got back from a trip to India and Sri Lanka and I can see both sides in this very interesting set of posts.

I have developed my own little philosophy to help me come to terms with the constant pestering that I certainly experienced. It goes like this - the people in India are so poor that they behave much as animals do. It is the survival of the fittest. Much as an animal would take advantage of any situation for it's own benefit and regardless of another animals pain or suffering (e.g. if animal #1 were eating animal #2 alive), so do the Indians. They are so poor that they see any tourist as being fabulously wealthy and a fair target for any scam, robbery or deceit. I came to consider them as mosquitos. Much as a mosquito will pester you and keep pestering until it gets a bite, so do the Indians. You just have to erect an invisible barrier around yourself and flick them away. You can't afford to let yourself become affected by the bad stuff that happens around you, it will destroy you. This is my philosophy. I'm sorry if it offends anyone, but it has helped me to deal with situations with a sense of humour rather than getting angry.

I have an Indian friend who reminds me that India is a land of extremes. How true this is. There is extreme poverty and extreme wealth. The wealthy don't seem to give a shit about the plight of the poor. There is extreme beauty and extreme ugliness. There is peace and there is overpowering noise. There is appaling driving everywhere (I can't think of an opposite for this, because I never saw one).

My Indian friend also says that you cannot change India, it will change you. Don't try to defeat India, or it will defeat you.

And yes, I saw some dreadful poverty, I saw people living in shit holes with animals, filthy vehicles, mud and excrement everywhere. No-one seemed to take responsibility for the state of the environment immediately arround themselves. All vehicles were dangerously overloaded, resulting in many breakdowns and accidents. I saw horribly calous attitudes to animals. Yes, I saw the bears being made to dance by the side of the Agra road. I saw old and/or sick elephants being made to carry people up to Amer Palace. I got Delhi belly and suffered for days after. I was appalled by the state of the toilets, or lack of them ...... but I just used my little philosophy, these people are no better than animals, they are like mosquitos, there are just too many of them; and then I was able to cope.

Would I go again? You bet, but I would take the advice of others on this branch and slow down, take longer and expect the unexpected, because it will happen. And expect the mosquitos to bite you, because they will anyway.

Sorry for the long rant. Hope it helps.

India for 9 weeks (Goa, Karnakta, Kerela, Tamil Nadu) again as a "solo female traveller" and had a blast. Yes things take twice as long but that's part of the charm. Yes things are dirty and decaying but no more so than in parts of Europe (Athens!!). But I found the people charming and helpful, the scenery gorgeous (esp the wetlands in Kerela, Palolem and a lovely hill station called Kodai Kanal) the temples etc fascinating, Cochin/Ernakulum was huge fun and the scams/hassle nothing like as bad as in Algeria, Morocco and Turkey. Oh and the FOOD was universally fantastic, esp the seafood.


The View Belongs To Everyone

Dear Mr Fine Furry Friend and Mr Post 27...
It is such a pity that some u did not like India...
I think India is not for U...
It's for people with open minds and the willingness to experience new things...
India Lives for itself..It will not change for u..
U have to make urself comfortable in India..It will not make it self comfortable for u...
I have been all round the world.. Vancouver SUcks.. too much drugs.. Got mugged in Rome... Lost Passport in paris....Was in stinking water dropping hotel In Amsterdam...Saw a couple of guys killed in New York...
IT happens everywhere...


So why don't u stay inside ur cozy little appartment and watch TV and experience UR all Western Cozy life...Don't go out..IT's dangerous for u

We spent about 4 month in India in 97 on the way home to Europe by campervan, which made it spacial in a way that we didn't have to deal with public transport or hotels. On the other hand we were able to get into real India, away from any site or touristtown. Anyway it is difficult to travel there. It takes time, much more than you think it is possible and even longer, and maybe tomorrow it is ok. or tomorrow, sorry, tomorrow? Enjoy and relax and don't get upset, because time has another meaning here, most tourist cannot, perhaps because they have just a couple of weeks off their stressy duty at home and then there in India nothing is working as expected. Either you have or you take your time or forget about going to India. Once you have accepted that it can be a great experience and you will certainly have a good time, even if you are not one of those stupid people going to India and just smoking their time away in Goa for three months including a side trip to Poone in Bagwans Ashram. India has a lot of different interesting aereas and you need furthermore time to see, what you would like to see. If you are prepared for this go and enjoy, if not: stay where you are.