February 5, 2003

 

My Thoughts About TurboTax Deluxe 2002

 

 

I have used TurboTax now for the last 5 years and have always loved it...until now!

 

Here are the problems that I have had so far.  If you want a laugh – Don’t forget to read the transcripts from the Chat session I had with Intuit’s Technical Support

 

Problem 1 (more of an inconvenience, the real problems were yet to come):

 

My first problem with the software was with activation.  In the past, I have done my taxes and my In-law’s taxes using TurboTax.  This year, like others, I took my copy of TurboTax to their house (about a 40 mile drive) to load on their PC and do the taxes.  Only this year, I was presented with an unexpected warning about activation.  Yes, I could still load it they said, but ONLY after installing it and activating it first on the machine that I planned to print my taxes on.  Since I had not loaded it on my machine yet, they did not get their taxes done that day.  Instead, I took their tax information and brought it home with me to (attempt to) do their taxes there.

 

Problem 2:

I installed TurboTax on my PC at home (Windows 98 SE, 500Mhz, PIII, 256M Ram, 40GB hard drive) for which I have not had any problems with until TurboTax was installed.  Installation went fine, and I successfully activated the software, and prepared my In-Laws taxes, and printed the taxes out for review.  So far, so good (so I thought) 

 

Next, I reviewed the information on the forms for accuracy. For the most part, they looked pretty good, or so I thought, until I reviewed the (Maryland) State Tax forms.  I noticed that a major omission in a subtraction from income concerning U.S. Obligations (this applies to US Treasury Notes, Bonds, etc. that are federally taxed, but are exempt from State taxes).  OK, I thought, I must have overlooked that when I was entering data, so I started TurboTax again to locate my mistake (actually Intuit’s mistake – this turned out to be a TurboTax bug – which, if gone unnoticed would have meant paying the State instead of getting a refund). As it turns out, the software should have automatically entered this data based on data from the Federal Form.  Thanks Intuit!  I finally forced the value directly into the expanded form 502, once I found it (see problem 4), and was able to correct the error.

 

Anyway, I tried to start TurboTax to fix the problem and....problem 3....

 

Problem 3:

When I tried to restart TurboTax, it presented me with a screen telling me I needed to activate the software (which I had already done). It then proceeded to dial out to Intuit’s activation site and verify that I really was allowed to use the software.  As it turns out, TurboTax dials out EVERY time I start the program to make sure that I am activated.  If you read the technical support chat session below, you will see that they actually told me I needed to boot my PC in Safe Mode to run/install their product to correct the problem.  When I questioned them about this, they told me that the system uses less resources in Safe Mode and that would allow me to run properly.  Here is software that they claim will run on something like a 200Mhz PC with 32M of memory.  What a joke!  

 

Problem 4:

 

I really did not want to boot in Safe Mode, so I let the software reactivate itself over the web.  Now, I went looking for where I could make the correction.  First, I went to the EasyStep menu so that I could try and find the interview page that might reference the subtractions.  Guess what, all of the links were messed up.  No matter what I clicked on it would take me to the wrong place.  So I went to the beginning of the State Tax interview.  I figured that I would step through the interview process until I found what I needed.  I began at the page that said I was starting my state return, and selected continue.  Next, I got a page congratulating me for completing my State taxes!  It skipped every interview page in between! After, several attempts, and 45 minutes of my time, I finally found the form via a whole series of incorrect links in the EasyStep menu and manually updated the form.

 

Problem 5:

 

I thought, I was finally done with my In-Law’s taxes.  Since they are retired and make estimated tax payments, they usually apply any state refund to the next year’s estimated tax payments.  Guess what, TurboTax never asks you if you want to do that.  Once again, through a maze of incorrect links, I found the form and made the correction manually (i.e., not through the interview).  Now that I was finished with my In-Law’s taxes, I dreaded having to do my own.  

 

Results:

 

After working my way through all of the TurboTax problems, I figured I would contact them and let them know what I found.  Of course, they want to charge you $14.95 to talk to a real person so I had to use their chat system.  What a joke!  They have a series of what appears to be a bunch of pre-canned responses.  I was in the chat sessions for over 3 hours!

 

Between dealing with all the software bugs and tech support chat, it took me an ADDITIONAL 5 hours (over and above getting my forms together and actually entering the data) to do the taxes this year.  I could have done them by hand much faster!

 

I have already alerted all of my friends, co-workers, relatives, and now hopefully you of the TurboTax problems.  For the most part, I have warned people in time and they have purchased TaxCut instead.  Unfortunately, I did not get to everyone in time and some are suffering now as I did.

 

I WILL NEVER PURCHASE TURBOTAX (or any Intuit product) EVER AGAIN!  Next year, I am getting H&R Block’s TaxCut.  

 

Actual Transcripts from TurboTax Technical Support Chat

(Are these guys for real?)

 

The following is a series of 3 chat sessions that I had with TurboTax technical support.  I initiated the chat sessions to report a number of bugs in their software (I did not want to pay $14.95 to speak to them in person).  This was a very frustrating experience that resulted in about 4 hours of chat time.  The first chat session lasted about an hour and I finally gave up because I wanted to eat dinner.  The second and third chat session lasted from 10:00pm until 1:00am.  After, the second chat session ended, a pop-up box appears asking if I was satisfied. I selected “NO”, so they connected me to yet another support agent.

 

As frustration grew, so did my sarcasm.

 

Note:  I have edited these transcripts only to remove my last name and my product key number.  Please excuse the number of typing errors that I made. I was tired, frustrated, and not exactly trying to impress them with my typing skills.

 

 

 

Chat Session 1

 

You have been connected to G. Jaegar.
G. Jaegar: Hello?Bob,?how?may?I?help?you?today?
Bob: I think I have found a bug in TurboTax state
G. Jaegar: Ok what is it Bob?
Bob: I have completed my State return only to realize that I did not enter the subtraction for US obligations. When I went to enter it, I used the I could not navigate back to it.
Bob: I would start at begin state return, hit continue and it would go directly to "Congratulations you completed your return"
Bob: After many attempts, I finally through EasyStep I finally got to the point where easystep would expand but all the links appeared to be messed up
Bob: If I was at Maryland Residency and hit back, I would go to Adjustments for business
Bob: After musch frustration, I realized that there is no place to enter data for US obligations
Bob: The 2-income subtraction worksheet is aware of the US obligations from the federal form, but the data is never entered in the for 502 for subtractions (T-bills are not taxed by the state)
G. Jaegar: You may want to uninstall and reinstall the TurboTax program Bob and reinstall the state download, you will not lose any information you have already completed if you use the programs uninstaller
Bob: I have a retail version of the state program, and why would I want to do this?
Bob: Aside from all the navigation bugs, the state program STILL does not have a place to enter subtractions for US obligations
G. Jaegar: One moment please Bob
Bob: I was only able to get the data entered by expanding the state form and manually enter it (ie., not via the interview), although, there should be another way
G. Jaegar: I will this information and pass it to my supervisors Bob, thanks for the input
Bob: Did you confirm the problem?
G. Jaegar: No, I have a problem with me state engine here Bob, which state were you using?
Bob: Maryland
G. Jaegar: Thanks, I`ll pass it on to get checked
Bob: Also , why does the software dial out to reconfirm activation more than once
Bob: Once the software is activated, It should not have to dial out every once and awhile just to make sure
G. Jaegar: I am not aware that the program dials out while being used Bob
Bob: You might also want to pass on to your supervisors that I feel like you guys have sacrificed quality because you spent to much effort trying to protect your software!
Bob: I have used TurboTax for 5 years now. Most likely this will be the last
G. Jaegar: Ok, thanks for the feedback Bob, we are continually trying to improve our product and rely on user feedback
Bob: When will I know if the problem with the state form is fixed?
G. Jaegar: If we find there is a problem it will be included in www.turbotaxsupoort.com at the next update will include a fix
Bob: Are you still there?
Bob: So in the mean time, I can not complete my state taxes. Great!
G. Jaegar: I would run through the program again Bob and make sure that all information and boxes are checked and correct
Bob: I have spent far to many hours with this software already. It has finally reached a point where it would be quicker to do it by hand.

 

Chat Session 2

 

You have been connected to D. Kelvin.
D. Kelvin: Hello?Bob,?how?may?I?help?you?today?
Bob: Hi, I have several questions that I tried to get answered before but the support agent could not give me any answers. I am trying again.
Bob: First,
Does your tech support offer any FREE telephone support? I believe I have found several bugs and would
rather not have to type everything.
D. Kelvin: Bob , you have to pay $14.95 for that.
Bob: Bug reports are for your benefit. But here are my questions anyway.
Bob: The US Obligations (i.e., T-Bills, etc that are exempt from state tax) do not carry over from the Federal return
as a state subtraction from income (line 10 MD form 503) on the state form.
There is no place to add this information in the state interview either. It does, however, get included correctly on the
"Two-income Married subtration worksheet for the state taxes.
D. Kelvin: Would you mind waiting for a minute while I research your issue?
Bob: OK
Bob: This is a very long minute. Are you still there?
D. Kelvin: Please stay with us. We are researching your issue.
Bob: OK
D. Kelvin: Are you asking about the updation.
Bob: The what?
D. Kelvin: Bob, the updation for the state will come on Febuary 15, 2003 and that time your problem will be solved.
Bob: OK, question 2
Bob: There does not appear to be any place to apply a state refund to next years estimated tax payment (line 47 form 503)
D. Kelvin: For this you have to wait till Febuary 15, 2003 as it is related to the updation.
Bob: Next question...
D. Kelvin: Is there anything else I can help you with?
Bob: Once the state return is completed, all of the links get messed up. I would start at begin state return,
hit continue and it would go directly to "Congratulations you completed your return". If I was at the Maryland Residency screen
and hit back, I would go to Adjustments for business.

D. Kelvin: You have been idle for more than 2.5 minutes. If you have sent your questions and we have not yet replied to it, please resubmit your question.
Bob: Are you still there?
D. Kelvin: yes.
Bob: Repeat of question. Or I guess this is another bug report: Once the state return is completed, all of the links get messed up. I would start at begin state return,
hit continue and it would go directly to "Congratulations you completed your return". If I was at the Maryland Residency screen
and hit back, I would go to Adjustments for business.

Bob: Are you guys aware of this also?
D. Kelvin: yes.
Bob: Feb 15th fix?
D. Kelvin: yes
Bob: OK last question: Why is it that EVERY time I start TurboTax, it has to dial out to the internet to check for activation.
Even when I want to print the taxes, it wants to access the internet again Why? I thought that once it was activated
on a PC that was it. How many times does it need to check?

D. Kelvin: Is your program is activated succesfully.
Bob: Yes
Bob: It's just that everytime I start the app, it dials the internet to check again
D. Kelvin: If in future you agin face this problem then please contact us again.
Bob: I am contacting you now, what do you mean in the future. It happens every single time that I start TurboTax!
Bob: It always activates again, but there is no need to check over the internet everytime I run the program
D. Kelvin sent http://www.turbotaxsupport.com/faq3.asp?docid=815
D. Kelvin: I have pushed you the page which we solve your problem.
D. Kelvin: I also suggest you to dissable your fire wall.
Bob: I think I have seen this already. I understand activation and safecast, etc. I do not believe it says anything about checking every time. And I do not have a firewall.
D. Kelvin: Which operating sysytem are you using.
Bob: Win98 SE
D. Kelvin: I suggest you to contact at : 800-446-8848.
Bob: is that a tech support number?
D. Kelvin: yes.
Bob: Hour of operation?
D. Kelvin: 8:00 A.m. to 5:00 p.M

Bob: time zone? EST?
D. Kelvin: pst.
Bob: and will I have to pay?
D. Kelvin: yes $14.95.
Bob: You guys are incredible. I have been loyal to TurboTax for a long time and I will NEVER buy this crap again. Is there a way to get a refund?
D. Kelvin: yes.
Bob: How?
D. Kelvin: Intuit Returns Warehouse
6060 Nancy Ridge Drive
Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92121-3290

Bob: And what do I do with the address? Send CDs?
D. Kelvin: yes.
Bob: What else. Let me know everything necessary for the return and refund.
D. Kelvin: what refund are you asking.
Bob: TurboTax Deluxe and the Retail state program. I have not sent in the rebates yet.
D. Kelvin: D. Fleur: If you wish to return our product for a refund, please follow the instructions below:

1. Return your product in its entirety (CD/disks and any manuals) within 60 days of shipment, along with a copy of your packing slip.

2. Include a note explaining why you are returning it and how we should contact you if we need to do so.

3. Please ship your products/s via a traceable shipping method to:

Intuit Returns Warehouse
6060 Nancy Ridge Drive
Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92121-3290
Bob: OK. I hope Intuit realizes how many customers they are going to lose over this activation business. TurboTax quality is very bad this year. I guess Intuit put more money into activation code then they did working out all the bugs.
Bob: I don't have anymore questions.
D. Kelvin: I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for visiting our TurboTax Support Chat.
Bob: I should make you guys pay me for being a Beta tester for your software. I'll send a bill for $14.95
D. Kelvin: ok.
D. Kelvin: ok.

 

 

Chat Session 2 (elevated to Senior person?)

(After the previous session, it asked me if I was satisfied with the answer that I was given, I selected No and it started another Chat session)

 

You have been connected to G. Jagger.
G. Jagger: Hello?Bob,?how?may?I?help?you?today?
Bob: Never mind. I talked to you before and you were not of any help.
Bob: Are you a Senior Agent?
G. Jagger: Would you like me to escalate your issue sir ?
Bob: Yes!
G. Jagger: Please hold sir , organising that request sir.
G. Jagger has left the session.
Please wait while we find another specialist to assist you.
You have been connected to D. Frazer.
D. Frazer: I apologize for the inconvenience you experienced when you were unexpectantly disconnected from the previous agent. I would like to take a moment to review that chat session so that I can help you resolve your issue.
Bob: Are you a senior agent?
D. Frazer: Yes, please brief me about the problem you are facing.
Bob: OK, I have been trying for hours to get some problems resolved (more like bugs)...The first agent G. Jagger could not answer my questions..
Bob: The second agent, after about 45 min concluded that several would be fixed in 2/15
Bob: The last bug has to do with activation.....
D. Frazer: Please tell me the problem you are facing while activating the program.
Bob: I have successfully activated the software. Now EVERY time I start TurboTax, it dials out to the internet to activate again.
D. Frazer: Please tell me the product key.
Bob: According to all of your FAQs, this activation is done once, and you load SafeCast etc. and everything is fine for my 1 PC. Why do I have to connect and reactivate EVERY time the application is started?
Bob: OK. Wait a minute.
Bob: xxxxx-xxxx-xxxxx-xxxx
D. Frazer: Have you reinstalled the program before?
Bob: I have installed it once.
D. Frazer: In which mode you installed the program?
Bob: What do you mean mode?
D. Frazer: In order to start your computer in a safe mode, restart the computer, press the key F8 few times when it restarts and you would be able to start your computer in a safe mode.
Bob: I did not install the software while the OS was booted in safe mode. I can not do this now, as I will lose this connection. Why are you even asking about safe mode and what does this have to do with activation?
D. Frazer: In the safe mode, more of the resources are available to install the program.
D. Frazer: Just follow the steps and if in case you face this problem again, feel free to contact us again.
Bob: That is not the problem. This PC has plenty resources available.
Bob: Bottom line is this. Nobody there has a clue! And you want to get paid so you refer me to paid telephone support. This is totally unacceptable when the problems are Intuit's because the code is buggy!
D. Frazer: Please follow the steps I gave and if in case you face this problem again, feel free to contact us again.
D. Frazer: It would definitely resolve the problem you are facing.
Bob: I can't even complete this years taxes because of the bugs I identified with the other agent.
Bob: I have been programming PCs for 20 years and I know a lot about how they work. If you are telling me that TurboTax has to be installed in SafeMode to run properly, than it is even more crap then I previously thought!
Bob: Never mind. In all the time I have wasted with this piece of software that is supposed to make my taxes easier, I could have done them by hand a couple of times!
D. Frazer: Just follow the instruction I gave and if that does not resolve the problem, just ask for a replacement CD.
Bob: I'll go get TaxCut instead.

 

 

More Evidence

 

Read ExtremeTech’s Article titled “TurboTax Test Results Uncover Real Problems”

 

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,863408,00.asp

 

Check out the reviews on CNET and Amazon:

 

http://www.cnet.com/software/0-3227903-1218-20714499.html

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006ULHT/ref%3Dnosim/metahoo-20/103-3688741-6896602

 

I also found this web page that someone put together that was as irritated as I am:

http://www.oocities.org/turbotaxsafecast/

 

Contact Info

TurboJunk2002@yahoo.com

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