| Jesus: [lights a cigarette] Ok, man, what
you got for me? The Beatus Ffungo: Ok, to start with, what's your opinion about Christianity? I mean, you played a pretty major role in its early development. J: Yeah, but that was a long time ago. It's become such a, well, such an institution since then. It's like people pay more attention to the way Christianity was 50 years ago and look to that for the authority. The Spirit is pretty much confined to sideshow tricks. TBF: Ok, you touched on a number of things there. Let's hit the institution thing first. Some people think that the capital-C Church may have peaked six or seven centuries ago, and with the whole nation-state thing, the institutional side may be - J: No, no, that's not really....By "institutional", I'm talking more about how people look to icons for guidance instead of the Spirit. I mean, the trappings of the institution, which used to be giant cathedrals and are now office parks and TV studios, have only changed form. The true nature of the institutional side is its self-perpetuating, unchallengeable nature. I mean, these people took some first century writings that were hand picked for largely political reasons two hundred years later, decided that they contained some kind of fixed "meaning", and said that anyone who thought otherwise was wrong and dangerous. All of this while the Spirit is right here. Right here! TBF: Sometimes I feel like people are afraid to trust themselves enough to make that trip themselves. J: Exactly, but people are even afraid to realize what tremendous power they have. Like all those healings, right? All through Israel in the early days, in Africa a few hundred years later. I kept telling these people "Your faith has healed you," and what did they do? They completely blew that off and said, "Oh no, you have healed me! Let me follow you around and ignore my own development." I mean, how did Matthew put it? "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, `Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." But they still look at themselves as these empty cups that the Spirit either chooses to fill or leaves empty and worthless. [stubs out cigarette, fishes out another & lights it] TBF: How should they look at themselves? J: I don't know, maybe.... maybe as [Charleton Heston impression] "As mighty eagles, and the Spirit as a breeze that lifts them." TBF: Mighty eagles? J:[laughs] Well, something like that. The point is, it's not a passive thing. TBF: Ok, what about the early evangelists? What do you think of their treatment of you in the Gospels? |
| J: [takes a deep drag] That's kind of hard
to say, because these guys - and they were all pretty good guys, for the
most part - these guys try to take the things that I said and did and use
them as the basis for their writing. Of course, they're gonna pick the
things that made the most sense to them, and forget about the stuff they
didn't really understand, but that's human nature. On top of that, these
guys are responding to political struggles too, within the Jewish church
and within the Empire, so everything's gonna reflect that. When you look
at it that way, you can see it's really not too bad. TBF: But a lot of people don't look at it that way. They completely ignore the fact that this stuff was written in another language millennia ago. They treat the "traditional" interpretation like it's the only possible one - like the Gehenna-equals-Hell thing - ignoring the fact that they're not getting their beliefs from the Bible, but from a bunch of guys who claim that their interpretation of the Bible is the only correct one. J: [stubs out cigarette, lights another] Heh heh heh. Yeah, I know that bugs you. But one thing you have to remember, Ffungo, is that these people are buying this stuff because it rings True to them. It doesn't matter if it's not historically iron-clad. It appeals to their sense of justice, it appeals to their need for love, and, most importantly, it allows them to participate in the Divine. So it's not your gig, well, that's gonna happen. Just try to play nice, you know? And besides - look at Revelations. I mean, that's a great book, even though people are really missing the obvious. TBF: Well, what do you think about the charge that, if you ever "came back", that Christians would kill you this time? J: Oh, the Dostoevsky thing? I dunno. Maybe. But let's be fair - no matter what they say, people don't really like to have their gods hanging around telling them what to do. I mean, you had Eris hanging around your place for - what, a year? TBF: Almost 18 months J: Almost 18 months, and you were pretty much ready to kill her, if I remember [laughs]. TBF: So what to you think about the contemporary scholars who dispute your historical existence? J: Well, in a way, they're right. I mean, after 2000 years of such emotionally charged spin control, can anything be real?[Stubs out cigarette] Hold on - what time is it? TBF: Almost 3. J: Oh - hey, I gotta run, man. [Gets up] You still with that blond girl? TBF: Yeah J: Cool. Tell her I said, "Hi." Take it easy.... |