RESPONSES FROM A SAI BABA WEBSITE POSTING
THE ORIGINAL POST TO 2 E-MAIL GROUPS
[Cut and pasted from a "Sai Baba Exposed" website.]
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 01:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: PeterR
Subject: "Sai Baba Exposed" Sathya Sai Baba Exposed: Cult, Magic,And Brainwashing
UPDATE:http://www.myfreeoffice.com/saibabaexposed "The following site has two movies that show Sai Baba cheating. The first movie is specially unique in that it catches sai baba from a very good angle. Please download the large screen version. Click here to see the movies
"The Findings" written by David and Faye Bailey are online now for your reading. David and Faye were VIP devotees for a few years before they found out about Sai Baba's dark side. Click here to read The Findings A new sexual molestation story by Jens from Germany. Click here to read A new sexual molestation story by Hans from Australia.
Click here to read Two young boys in Sweden have accused Sai Baba of
sexual molestation and as a result many of the
devotees have left Sai Baba. Recently Connie Larsson,-
a Swedish actor and a VIP devotee of Sai Baba exposed
his sexual relationship with Sai Baba also. Here is an
article that was written about Connie Larsson in a
Swedish spiritual magazine. This article also touches
upon one of the stories of the young Swedish boy that
was molested: Click here There are many interesting discussions in the
following club between devotees and ex-devotees.
Click
here to go there. "Baba is not learned or highly educated. He is a
non-matriculate playing with undergraduates in the
Sathya Sai Colleges."V K Gokak, Sri Sathya Sai Baba, The Man and The
Avatar, Abhinav Publications, New Delhi, 1975, p. 97
V K Gokak is a long time VIP devotee of Sai Baba. He
was the head of Sai Baba's university. Sathya Sai Baba & His Cult
This site has info on Sathya Sai Baba's cult, it does not have any information on Sathya Sai Baba's bhajans, movies, pictures, "miracles", books, dreams, etc. If you are a Sathya Sai Baba devotee, you might get very offended, so if you prefer, do not read any further and go to another site. However, if you want to be a serious, true seeker of the truth, then please bookmark this site and read the contents. Thank you. Sathya Sai Baba claims to be an Avatar -- a Hindu word for God's descent into a human body. He supposedly has millions of followers althogh no one really knows how many followers there is. Sathya Sai Baba also claims that he has the power to do anything he wills. There are numerous stories by Sai Baba's devotees on how Sai Baba has produced a ring -- out of nowhere -- for them, how they were cured, etc. Sathya Sai Baba supposedly can produce things out of nowhere by circling his right hand and then with a quick downward move, he grabs something and gives it to one of his followers. As an ex-devotee of Sathya Sai Baba, I know of four movies that clearly show him cheating on this "miracle" that has made him very famous, rich, and has brought to him millions of followers -- some are very well known -- from all over the world. This web site attempts to introduce to the readers the dark side of Sathya Sai Baba.
Links to interesting sites on Sathya Sai Baba:
Watch Sai Baba cheat on video (4-5 clear, close-up shots) & learn how Sai Baba really cheats An entire book that analyses Sai Baba's powers is online (A MUST READ!).
An account of sexual molestation and magic by one of Sai Baba's much respected students (A MUST READ!). Sai Baba's cancer causing habit and his recommendation of it! Sai Baba lies about one of his "miracles" Sai Baba lies again about one of his "miracles" Sai Baba makes two different remarks on the Star Of Bethlehem Sai Baba Makes A Mistake, Not Once, But Twice How come Sai Baba doesn't "create" Seiko watches anymore? NHNE report on Sai Baba, murders in Sai Baba's bedroom, kidney theft, and more Interesting: Investigate the Murder at Satya Sai Baba's Collage Beware: very graphic picture of the burnt body of Lokayya Poojary of the Satya Sai Junior College What if Sai Baba can do miracles? Links to other anti-Sai Baba web sites Sai Baba's speech about the "rumors" on the internet Links to cult resources Message & Discussion Board"
(end of "cut & paste)
THIS RESPONSE WAS A REPLY WAITING TO HAPPEN!
To:earthchanges@egroups.com
From "_reestone _ilson" Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:00:19 -0000
Reply-to:earthchanges@egroups.com
Subject:[earthchanges] Re: "Sai Baba Exposed"...my reply hi everyone......
hmmmm.....i had just recently found a "warning" in my mail box about
some HIV needles that people put onto gas pumps and this lady was all
all upset and she wanted everyone to pass this on....i went to
www.urbanlegends.com and in a moment i found this event was only a
urban legend...FALSE!
why do i bring this up??
because i have seen this baba criticism brought up so so so many
times, the very same ten or so events over and over....
yes i know folks, baba claims to be God incarnate and thus he is
supposed to be pure and then This Bothers People so that the critics
look for stuff against him.
lets say that he is only a Guru. gurus are human beings.
human beings are not perfect. Am I?
ARE YOU? is the poster of this article pure? are the people who
find all of this dirt-against-baba pure?!
NO!
----and this is even assuming that what the critics are seeing really
is real! i, myself, have misgivings about this realness of what the
critics see. Any good guru has the psychic ability to actually
INFLUENCE what another person experiences in the guru's presence!!
so why would a guru invoke to a witness a scene where this guru
is doing a negative act which trashes the reputation of this teacher?!
[I actually think that such a "sorceror/Guru' can actually create an
image where he is cheating on something , an image which can be
filmed!]
.....tis seems to be counter-productive to this guru's intents to
teach...doing this!
i would have an idea as to why.....because this guru wants to reflect
back to the observer that observer's own life philosophy! many
critics are very CYNICAL...very Down on life...in a sense they WANT
to
see every Golden thing to have a base of clay.
the guru gives to them what they seek!!
many of these critics slowly go insane as the whole of their life
"black-hole implodes" about them, as their negativity keeps being
shown back to them from the envirnment such that they believe it is
even the more so and thus their beliefs are reinforced and thus the
wheel spins ever ever the faster and they become even MORE negative
and then the outer world reflects that back to them....insanity or
suicide becomes a real option....then! why they even can draw around
them negative people! why at the cafe, some terrible-mood person may
always sit right next to them, always! like attact like!
perhaps if the guru speeds this process up...and the observer COOKS
long enough in his negativity...maybe he will have a revelation as to
what is going on...and stop this process and change his attitiudes!
freestone
SOME EXPLICATIVES HAVE BEEN MODIFIED.
"Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge
we have lost in information?" - T.S. Eliot - Choruses from 'The Rock'
"So long and thanks for all the fish" - Dolphin ETs departing
Earth in Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
SOME MORE RESPONSES
Phi(re)
8/7/2004
6:14 pm EDT
Dr. Burisch Catselas. The Re/Search for the Truth Volume 18 page 38
PSYCHOSPELEOLOGOS
8/7/2004
1:07 am EDT
>>Therefore anyone is free to dismiss Mr.Creme, but in order to dismiss his story you would have to deny the testimony of history...
I am personally convinced about the truth and sincerity of the words of this remarkable man. <<
PSYCHOSPELEOLOGOS,
I, too, enjoyed your sincere and articulate post. It's perfectly OK if you follow your heart and stand up to all challenges for your convictions. Aside from semantics and scholastics I totally respect that. And for the record - I do not associate myself with the New Age movements of any kind anymore. I also want to point out and remind you that Dan Burisch in all humility stood up against possible deception by the Cherubim entity because, he said - I paraphrase, he would not have enough wisdom and knowledge to discern the truth from a lie in this instance, so he insisted on his free will choice of recognition and to be held responsible for his actions in front of the true Creator.
You must define better, though, what is the New Age movement in your understanding, and why would, in your opinion, Benjamin Creme be not part of it. Because by all signs he is deeply rooted in it as an offshoot of its branch called the School of Ageless Wisdom founded by Alice Bailey. Did you have time to thoroughly explore this New Age teaching that Alice Bailey claims to receive from Djwal Khul, aka "the Tibetan", disciple of Ascended Masters, Mahatmas Morya and Koot Hoomi? Do you also believe in sincerity and the truth of the Tibetan's teachings?
B. Creme by his own words "read, among others, the Theosophical works of H.P. Blavatsky and Leadbeater; Gurdjieff, Ouspensky and Nicoll; Paul Brunton; Patanjali; the Alice Bailey and Agni Yoga teachings; Swamis Vivekananda and Yogananda; Sri Ramana Maharishi, whose path of self-knowledge I sought to follow."
See also the web site of his organization 'Share International' http://www.shareintl.org/archives/AgelessWisdom/faq_basic.htm:
"The Ageless Wisdom teachings are as old as humanity itself. These are the teachings of a group of men who have gone beyond the strictly human stage and have entered the next kingdom, the Spiritual Kingdom. They are the Masters of Wisdom and the Lords of Compassion. They are men and women like us who have expanded their consciousness to include the spiritual levels. There are a large number of these Enlightened men on our planet, Who have been living in the remote mountain and desert areas for countless thousands of years. From time to time They release aspects of Their teachings, in so far as we can absorb and use them, to enlighten us. In modern times the major expression of these teachings was given through Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, one of the founders of the Theosophical Society, between 1875 and 1890. Her book The Secret Doctrine is the preparatory phase of the teachings given for the new cosmic cycle which we are now entering - we call it the Age of Aquarius. A later phase was given through an English disciple, Alice Bailey, between 1919 and 1949, by a Tibetan Master, Djwhal Khul, and this is seen as the intermediate phase of the teachings. Between 1924 and 1939, a further body of teachings - the Agni Yoga teachings - was given through another Russian disciple, Helena Roerich. These Ageless Wisdom teachings are the means by which humanity is kept informed of its essential divinity and of its journey of evolution toward perfection."
Now, here's the problem. This FAQ quote is intended for trusting (or should I say gullible?) people who would not have time or would not have a reason to dig deeper than that. You need to read "The Mahatma Letters to A. P. Sinnett" (1881-1883), "The Secret Doctrine"(1888) , Letters of Helena Roerich (1929-1955), and books of Agni Yoga to fully appreciate what I am going to say.
The truth is
1) Djwhal Khul was never "promoted" to the rank of Master or "approved" by the Mahatmas that he (or Alice Bailey for that matter) claimed association with as a disciple. This was his "standalone" claim not supported by other disciples of equal rank or Masters of the Hierarchy themselves.
2) Agni Yoga was given through Helena Roerich directly by Mahatmas Morya and Koot Hoomi, and in some instances other adepts. There was no Djwal Khul anywhere close to Helena Roerich, and it was not a "second phase" subordinate to the "first phase" of what Alice Bailey got from the Tibetan. If you are privy to what old timers of the School of Ageless Wisdom have to say about that, then they will confirm that Agni Yoga was considered by them to be a teaching superior to that of the Tibetan. Moreover, Alice Bailey was always trying to advertise both teachings as coming from the same source, yet in truth Helena Roerich openly and clearly disassociated herself and Agni Yoga from Alice Bailey and Djwal Khul. And it was an embarrassing discrepancy for all honest followers of Alice Bailey since then. They had to cling to a lie imposed on them by Alice Bailey while the latter had no authorization from Helena Roerich or Mahatmas to represent Agni Yoga. Please read the following and pay attention (unedited as this somewhat poor translation is given at http://www.esotericastrologer.org/EA%20Essays/AABHPBHR3.htm but I can find, scan and mail to you the exact Russian text as it was originally published if you want me to - the real problem is that the "harsh words" were omitted in the English edition of the letters , New York, 1954, - why is it not surprising?):
The Letters of Helena Roerich. 1932-1955. p. 54. Novosibirsk, "Viko" & "Algim", 1993. 23.08.1934 "Many naive people believe, that the dark forces work only with evil, debauch and crimes. How they are mistaken. So the rough forces and forces of small degrees work only. Much more dangerous are those who comes under a mask of light of the Teaching. You already know such example. In America there is a very extensive society, and the head of it receives the doctrine from the teacher, which does not open his name, naming himself by the Tibetan Brother. We know, who disappears under this pseudonym. The force of him is great. And purpose of this teacher, personificates as though a Teacher of the White Brotherhood, is to attract in his staff so many as possible of the good and useful people, which otherwise could help effectively to the Great Plan of Masters, Plan of rescue of a planet. And these unfortunate ones, not having true recognition of fires of heart, fly as moths on black fire that turns them to ashes. Ignorance, lack of sense-knowledge pushes them in embraces of darkness and deprives for a long time, if not forever, salutary influence and attraction of Beams of a Great Stronghold of Light. Armageddon is terrible, you see the forces of darkness struggling for their existence, the despair makes them so rallied and persistent in achievement of their purpose. Prince of the World has a lot of talented, conscious and unconscious accomplices, and it is naive to think, that they are not able to work delicate. They are very refined and inventive and work on consciousness of the victims. But all of them are deprived of heat of heart. I have books of this Tibetan Teacher, they are dry up extremely. One book is called as "White Magic"
[A Treatise on White Magic] . To me is told, that the best pages are borrowed from the Doctrine of a White Brotherhood. It is interesting to note, that the head of this society for the greater prestige and attracting of the supporters of our books recommends them to their members and has founded classes for study of Agny Yoga books. So is bound the darkness with Light on the Earth".
============================================
Okay, I understand that this is an extremely sensitive matter but when at least one lie is exposed can you truthfully follow Benjamin Creme?
============================================
Phi(re)
8/7/2004
7:31 pm EDT
Dr. Burisch Catselas. The Re/Search for the Truth Volume 18
PSYCHOSPELEOLOGOS,
Re: B. Creme
I decided to provide you with a better translation as opposed to the one performed rather poorly by someone at http://www.esotericastrologer.org/EA%20Essays/AABHPBHR3.htm. I was using the original letter published in Riga, Latvia. This letter is only one of several published letters that expose the lie told by Alice Bailey on behalf of the Tibetan to her many followers and believers. See below:
===========================================
The Letters of Helena Roerich. 1932-1955. p. 54. Novosibirsk, "Viko" & "Algim", 1993. 23.08.1934 "Many naive people believe, that the dark ones act only through evil, corruption and crime. How wrong they are! Only the crude and relatively insignificant dark forces act in this way. Much more dangerous are those who masquerade under the guise of Light. You already know one such example. In America there is a very large society, and the head of it receives the doctrine from the teacher, who does not disclose his name calling himself Tibetan Brother. We know, who is hiding under this pseudonym. His influence is great. And the goal of this teacher, who disguised himself as a Teacher of the White Brotherhood, is to attract to his side as many good and useful people as possible, the people who otherwise could assist significantly to the Great Plan of Masters, the Plan to rescue this planet. And these unfortunate ones, who do not possess true discernment of fires of the heart, fly like moths into the black fire that turns them to ashes. Ignorance, lack of direct knowledge pushes them into embraces of darkness and removes them for a long time, if not forever, from the influence and attraction of Rays of the Great Stronghold of Light. Armageddon is terrible, you can see the forces of darkness struggling for their very existence, and their utmost despair unites them and makes them very persistent in pursue of their goal. The Prince of the World has a lot of talented, conscious and unconscious accomplices, and it is naive to think, that they are not able to work delicately. They are very refined and inventive and act according to consciousness of their victims. But all of them are deprived of the fire of heart. I have books of this Tibetan Teacher, they are extremely dry. One book is called as "White Magic"
[A Treatise on White Magic] . I was told, that its best pages are borrowed from the Teaching of the White Brotherhood. It is interesting to note, that the head of this society for the greater prestige and in order to attract supporters of our books recommends them to the members and has arranged classes to study the books of Agni Yoga. This is how the darkness attempts to intertwine with the Light on Earth".
===========================================
I don't know if Benjamin Creme was accepting at face value what he was told without checking for himself and then sincerely promoted these lies further but the fact is the Teaching Of the Tibetan (Master) given to/through Alice Bailey and the Teaching of Agni Yoga given to/through Helena Roerich were at odds from the start according to this and other letters despite what B. Creme, Alice Bailey and their followers would like to think and advertise. In other words the so called Tibetan Brother was accused by Helena Roerich to be an impostor, and not true Djwal Khul known from the "Mahatma Letters to Sinnett". Also Helena Roerich had advised her students to be aware of the deception raging in the U.S. under the guise of the White Brotherhood having in mind notorious NWO in its worst shape. Now, if B. Cremes believes everything he was told, then, he propagates these lies too, no matter how skillfully they are decorated as all Light and all Good.
I sincerely wish you all the best in your quest for truth.
"
Expose "New Age" movement
Conspiracies, NWO
"May 1982: At a Los Angeles press conference, Benjamin Creme reveals that MAITREYA lives in London,..."
A satanic cult headquartered in the City of London holds mankind in bondage
Secrets Of The Federal Reserve
The London Connection
WEBSITE
---------
=
To:
To:earthchanges@egroups.com
From: _onathan David _oyne <_oyne@hawaii.edu>
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:43:47 -1000
Reply-to: earthchanges@egroups.com Subject:
Re: [earthchanges] Re: "Sai Baba Exposed"...my reply
. ..hey all... is it 'real'? is it 'fake'? what to believe? Heisenberg's
Uncertainty Principle versus Positivism? what a dilemma! what a Western
outward challenge to self-identity?! get a X...ing grip! die! volunteer
and learn from those in hospice! whatever you x...ing learn! put your
purported X...ing learning into gear! and what exactly is that learning
and metal to the mettle? rhetorically, i dearly hope not to hear from
you, for that would be evidence of my antithesis...no end of sentimental 3Ders 'share' online in groups, while their
time ought better to be spent helping those in genuine need... (bring in
the newage violins and rationalizations for inaction)... if you're 'in
gear', i don't need to hear from you... if you have an SUV and a
portfolio of rationalizations, i most certainly don't want to hear from
you either, for i'll tell you to give it all away... if this seems to
you'retro', you are merely a yuppie with no academic-historical
knowlege... drive in - and do you pick up hitchhikers or run them
down?! goober... jody
OM SAI RAM
_onathan (_ody) _oyne
MA East-West Counseling Psychology
MLIS (Library & Information Science)
MA East-West Religion
Trans-Human Counseling Psychologist _oyne@hawaii.edu
Reference & Web Librarian
Jody's "ET Phone-Home" Page
University of Hawaii
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~_oyne
_550 The Mall 2065 Lanihuli Dr.Hon. Hi. 96822
(808)_56-7214 (808) _51-4933
MORE RESPONSES FROM A DIFF. E-GROUP
d, 21 Jun 2000 07:00:08 -0700
To:lemuria@photon.net
From:_avington <_bav@netidea.com>
Subject:
Re: [Lemuria] Re: Could it be my friend died as a result of Sai baba
Reply-to: lemuria@photon.net
I am sorry about you losing your friend. It is a tragic loss and may or may
not have happened if she had not followed Sai Baba to India.I think that the problem with all of these gurus is that they are only human
and fall into the fallacies to which we are all prone....and self-importance
is one of these.We should never put our faith and our power into the ideals of another
person. To do so destroys our freedom of choice and we become lost in another person's ego trip. A magnetic personality is really hard to stand
up to. A magnetic idea can be the same.
But we are all individuals trying to find our way through a myriad of choices presented to us. We all react differently. We must each find our
own way, the way that is best for us. We can study the pathways of others
who came before us or of those that are here now. But we should NEVER give
up our individuality, our power to another person..... it never works.
We must each follow our own hearts and not be trapped into 'cult'-like
happenings. We must be true to ourselves. We must love and treat each
other with honour. That is all that we need to do.I was trying to explain this to my nephew and I suggested that he play a
'game' of Pass-It-On. Do something nice for someone....something
spontaneous or planned....but not something that they are asking
for....it must come from your own generosity. If they say something or thank you or
whatever....say "Pass it on!" and smile.
And if we all 'played' pass-it-on imagine the change that would come into
the world! Maybe we could all overcome our shortcomings and really begin to
work together to make this planet a better place to live on! And that is what gives me hope.
So let's all go out today and play a little Pass-It-On, ok?! :)
Love and Light,
Raven Mother
At 02:26 PM 19/06/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>My good friend Miara followed Sai Baba to India, Where she contracted Yellow
>fever she said Sai Baba had healed her from but then about a month later she
>had a relapse an well as a hepititus infection and diabetes all at once. We
>lost her she was only 41 years old. I miss her and I can't help but to be
>alarmed at the possibilities of Sai Baba being a fraud she put so much faith
>into him.I guess that is the whole problem we need to put faith and
>confidence in ourselves and never hand over our power to another who appears
>to be farther that we think we are in our spiritual process.
>Love Linda
From: Dream Weaver
To: lemuria@photon.net
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Lemuria] re:sai baba..........
Hey All Y'all, Wake-up and smell the Chi Tea! The smuck is just
>another false profiter with a pretty good schitch for many years,until
>his true nature began to unravel.He's a faiker,pedefile,a fake,
>charlatan, and a lousy magician to boot!Why can't you people get it,He's
>not worth the time and energy y'all are spending on this stupid subject!
>Get over it/him and get on with some meaningful conversation.Oh yes,and
>Please remove me from the list.Thanks again John for the ride and have a nice summer.
Shanti, DW
From:"Alan Harris"
To: lemuria@photon.net
Subject: Re: Fw: [Lemuria] re:sai baba..........
Date:Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:56:14 PDT
Reply-to:lemuria@photon.net
rakel.......i am in complete harmony with you over the idea of teachers and
masters.......this sai baba thing has been very enlightening as far as
opinions and attitudes within our small and beautiful microcosm here.....i
find that so often semantics get in the way and that so many are quick to
argue and use words as ways of generating/nourishing ego projections.....in
my humble opinion, there are as many truths as there are beings in the
universe....my truth today is that i love everyone and honor and respect
their choices in their path to learning......and my choice is not to engage
in, "he/she is not right, i am right", which is the same thing albeit the
other side.....and were it not for these judgments perhaps it would cease to
exist entirely......the fact that the human sai baba is the crux of the
conversation is irrelevant and circumstantial....the fact that we are
having
the conversation is what is relevant.......so many feel that we have
evolved, ascended, whatever is the current term for it.....but the same
simple and profound issues surface time and again, no?.....not just here on
a daily/weekly/monthly, etc. basis, but over eons and eons.....you know it's
one thing to jump but quite another to fall.....have we really been anywhere
at all?........*soft smile*.....so, back to square one, it's a glorious new
day........i think i will rise up and walk........alan.....
http://www.mdep.org/NewAgeComplete.html
http://www.oocities.org/peter99_/annex/worldincrisis.html
http://www.shareintl.org/maitreya/Ma_emerge.htm
http://www.rense.com/general54/makk.htm
http://www.federal-reserve.net/secrets.htm
