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Hello, Rosa_McGee [ logout ] profile | register | faq | search | forum home (Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 ) << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> Marilyn Manson BBS > Marilyn Manson > To all the openminded I say welcome. The great theology thread has returned! Author Message Grump Member 1967 Posts Member since: 01-11-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ i agree with rictus on what he posted above. since this is a theology thread and not a 'causes of aids in africa' thread, i think he was trying to call attention to the ways that certain forms of organized christianity have contributed to this travesty, not to account for all of the causes of it.Â? ##I'm not afraid to admit that I masturbate club: member no. 648,294,024.## ## officially sick of sig files of all kinds##1 posted 03-08-200110:59 AM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Rictus and Grump ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rictus...Yes, I think we agree. I do believe that the prohibition of contraception can lead to an increase in AIDS cases in Africa. I have no problem stating that. However, I believe that the elimination of the no premarital sex before marriage is a greater cause than this. I also will say that I think it is an erroneous assumption to assume that all or most Catholics strictly adhere to what the Pope says. If only 20% are Catholic (which is a very substantial number) I would say that not even a majority of them would strictly adhere to the Pope's words. Your previous quotes led me to believe that it was a major cause of it. Your words were pretty strong in this regard and I admit that I probably misinterpreted them. As I said, I am all for sending out condoms to those areas. I also think that initiative should be accompanied by teaching on abstinence that is all. Grump...Yes, we have discussed this at some level, but I do believe that all men have a yearning for God. I call it God-consciousness. The sense of wonder in the heart of man grows greater with every year (forgive me for those of you who have already heard this). I remember when I was a child and I dreamed of riding the bus to school. Then I went to school and I dreamed of being 10 so I could have two digits in my age and get rid of my nightlight. When I became 10 I dreamed of driving at the age of 16. When I became 16 I wanted to be 18 so I'd be in adult and I could go to college. When I was 18 I wanted to be 21 so I could drink legally in clubs (I was not a Christian then). When I became 21 I wanted to graduate from College so I could work in the real world. Now I'm 26 and working in the real world and I wish I could be a kid again. The reality is that the longer we live the more it takes for us to experience wonder. The only thing that can fill our heart is a God that is big enough to create all that we desire in life. Humans often find substitutes in money, career, relationships, sex drugs and you name it but they all fall short. The only thing that can fill a heart is God. With reference to Lennin, I believe that it is the tendency of man to create idols. Not necessarily statues but those things that substitute for God. However, this is what God has to say about that: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. 2 The more they called them, The more they went from them; They kept sacrificing to the Baals And burning incense to idols. 3 Yet it is I who taught Ephraim to walk, I took them in My arms; But they did not know that I healed them. 4 I led them with cords of a man, with bonds of love, And I became to them as one who lifts the yoke from their jaws; And I bent down and fed them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hosea 13:1 In the past when the tribe of Ephraim spoke, the people shook with fear because the other Israelite tribes looked up to them. But the people of Ephraim sinned by worshiping Baal and thus sealed their destruction. 2 Now they keep on sinning by making silver idols to worship-- images shaped skillfully with human hands. "Sacrifice to these," they cry, "and kiss the calf idols!" 3 Therefore, they will disappear like the morning mist, like dew in the morning sun, like chaff blown by the wind, like smoke from a chimney. 4 "I am the LORD your God, who rescued you from your slavery in Egypt. You have no God but me, for there is no other savior. 5 I took care of you in the wilderness, in that dry and thirsty land. 6 But when you had eaten and were satisfied, then you became proud and forgot me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The natural tendency of man is to take all that God does for granted and place a higher priority on human creations. In the end, this is why I believe atheism ultimately leads to emptiness. As Ravi Zacharias said, "The loneliest moment in life is when a person experiences that which they thought would bring them the ultimate and it has let them down." God Bless...Freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-08-200112:10 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @freegrace: i took that class VERY seriously. I make it my duty to learn about what i don't believe. in. but we know this. i dunno what will happen when i undertake the NT...for some reason it doesn't sound as interesting. @rictus: hi my jesus fairy! @grump: perhaps it's not an either or situation. Maybe there are many reasons that humans in general feel they need a god. THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 03-08-200112:10 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 That's Great Devilmunchkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A friend of mine once said that the New Testament is like a commentary of the Old Testament. It shows how the Old Testament was fulfilled in Christ. I think the more you read the OT, the more interesting it will become to you. I will be studying much of the OT in the summer and fall...freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-08-200112:20 PM onix_weapon Member 101 Posts Member since: 10-17-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ fucking long ass thread " l e a v e y o u r i n h i b i t i o n s a t t h e d o o r " The Official Marilyn Manson BBS Pornography Club posted 03-08-200102:06 PM Lord of the Nazgúl Member 1369 Posts Member since: 02-02-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I tried reading the Old Testament a couple of summers ago. To many "begets" if you ask me . I'll probably try again this summer... posted 03-08-200104:22 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Hello folks ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yes this is a long thread. Maybe one day it will grow to be as long as the Bible. Lord of the Nazgul...The Old Testament is challenging to read but pretty interesting. Interestingly enough, the begats are actually the Old Testament lineage that validate that Jesus is the Messiah. He was said to be a descendent of David and Abraham which were both prerequisites. That is why they are in there...freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-08-200104:54 PM devilmunchkin Member 3003 Posts Member since: 08-19-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ @nazgul: skip over the begats. read ezekiel: there's a gret part where i swear the guy is on hallucinogens (laughs at freegrace) THROUGH ME YOU GO INTO PAIN THAT IS ETERNAL, THROUGH ME YOU GO AMONG PEOPLE LOST. JUSTICE MOVED MY EXALTED CREATOR: THE DIVINE POWER MADE ME, THE SUPREME WISDOM AND THE PRIMA LOVE. BEFORE ME ALL CREATED THINGS WERE ETERNAL, AND ETERNAL WILL LAST. ABANDON EVERY HOPE YOU WHO ENTER HERE. Dante's Inferno, Canto III posted 03-08-200104:58 PM Hoodwink Junior Member 10 Posts Member since: 03-06-2001 confusion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ compare this: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Please don't advocate me as someone who advocates the Old Testament law, because I have done the opposite. You will see in my posts about homosexuality, I never even discussed the Leviticus passage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ with this: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A friend of mine once said that the New Testament is like a commentary of the Old Testament. It shows how the Old Testament was fulfilled in Christ. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ and this: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Old Testament is challenging to read but pretty interesting. Interestingly enough, the begats are actually the Old Testament lineage that validate that Jesus is the Messiah. He was said to be a descendent of David and Abraham which were both prerequisites. That is why they are in there... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Some are more equal than others." posted 03-08-200105:03 PM Lord of the Nazgúl Member 1369 Posts Member since: 02-02-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yeah, I know why they're in there. I just wanted to get to the stories and not the lineage... posted 03-08-200105:10 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 My beloved hoodwink ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Old Testament is different from the Old Testament law. The Old Testament is the books of the Bible that were prior to the Gospels, Epistles and Revelation. The Old Testament law specifically speaks of the laws (mostly contained in Pentateuch) that governed the administration of the Old Testament. I accept the revelation of the Old Testament because it points to Christ; however Christians are not subject to the requirements of the Old Testament law that are not directly repeated in the New Testament because they were completely fulfilled in Christ, the model of righteousness (as I mentioned before, homosexuality is repeated in the NT). As I said in the previous post, the law is like a mirror that was designed to demonstrate man's sinfulness but it could never clean the dirty face. Only Christ can do that. That is what I meant when I said that the New Testament is a commentary of the Old Testament because it demonstrates how the shadows in the Old Testament were fulfilled in the New Testament. I hope this helps...freegrace 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-08-200105:37 PM Jacob Junior Member 37 Posts Member since: 10-09-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ So we need hope and we need God? Freegrace, how does Marilyn Manson fit in this. To point out the abuse of hope and the abuse of God? Or do you think maybe he's kinda off? I'm sorry if this was talked about 300 threads ago. But I am another individual worth saving. I feel empty. Jacob posted 03-08-200107:54 PM Lord of the Nazgúl Member 1369 Posts Member since: 02-02-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Manson fits in as an entertaining musicial who isn't afraid to have his own beliefs and speak them. Does he need to be anything more?... posted 03-08-200108:16 PM Grump Member 1967 Posts Member since: 01-11-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ i tend to think that it is in the nature of being human to feel that something is missing, and that it is up to each individual to figure out how to deal with that: to find ways to fill the void or simply to accept it. this really isn't depressing to me. i am happiest since i came to some understanding that for me, a certain emptiness or feeling that something is missing is ok.. it is the nature of desire, and tells me that i'm alive.+ ##I'm not afraid to admit that I masturbate club: member no. 648,294,024.## ## officially sick of sig files of all kinds##1 posted 03-08-200108:24 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 Jacob (please excuse this for those of you that have already read it) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I first came to this bbs on October 31st after reading an article about Brian Warner in the gym. I was familiar with him and his music, but what struck me most about him was his purpose for his music. Consequently, I came here to make one post, that has now turned into several hundred. Incidentally, my primary goal is not to convert but to let people know they are loved and that Christianity is not inherently illogical. By the way, I do actually listen to Brian Warner's music and have a great deal of appreciation for it, while I do not agree with his lifestyle or many of his beliefs. Here is the first post (it was actually written to Brian Warner) that I ever did on this bbs: quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Brian...For a while now I have followed your career. In a recent article in Talk! magazine you said that your goal is to defend that pimple faced teenager that gets beaten up every day at school. From my understanding of your background, you received a great deal of mistreatment from your church and your schoolmates growing up. I, too, grew up with the same experience which made me bitter. I am most disappointed by the reaction that you have received from the Christian community for much of your life. As a whole, American Christianity has greatly mistreated and neglected the vast majority of people that Christ called Christians to minister to. Ravi Zacharias says that the truth of a message cannot be evaluated by the level of its abuse. The Christianity you have seen is not a product of Christ's teachings but a terrible misapplication. My goal is not to criticize your or your music but to apologize on behalf of Christians for the way you have been treated for much of your life. I want you to know that your story has inspired me as a youth pastor to look for that pimple faced, neglected teenager and offer them the hope that can forever change them. Please know that just as it is wrong to blame your music for the Columbine incident, and all the wrongs of this world, it is equally wrong to blame Christ for all of the wrong committed by his supposed followers. I grew up through much of my youth listening to Ozzy, Black Sabbath, NIN, Megadeath, Metallica, Dio, and Rob Zombie and never once did it lead me to kill anyone. We have to take responsibility for ourselves, as Creed says we've created our own prison. However, I do feel like Christianity is responsible for much of the anger in your music. It should also be noted that the people you seek to defend are much like Christ. The Bible says in Isaiah 53, "2 He has no stately form or majesty That we should look upon Him, Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him. 3 He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face, He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. 4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him." He was not the glorious handsome man that we see in the paintings but an outcast who suffered greatly so we could have eternal life through faith in Him. As you go on tour, know that some friends and I have taken on the task of praying for you. I know that you are a reverend in the church of Satan but I believe in a God who loves all of us despite of our decisions. Remember as Ravi Zacharias says, "The loneliest moment in life is when we experience that which we thought would bring us the ultimate and it has let us down." In the midst of your fame and wealth, I can still see from your music that this can't satisfy you. As Curt Cobain soon learned, fame only brings more devastation. I realize that this message will be met with a great deal of rejection. You and your listeners have been through a lot, so I don't blame you. However, I wanted for you to know that in spite of the abuse you have seen, you are very much loved by the Savior you seek to criticize through your music. May God Bless you ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-08-200110:21 PM freegrace Member 945 Posts Member since: 10-31-2000 One more thing Jacob ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is one of my favorite songs that talks about this subject. It was written by my favorite artist Rich Mullins who said, "My twenty⤙s were very disturbed yearsâ¤|Becauseâ¤|it was the time of the real battle between my will to submit my will and my will to assert my will. I wanted to love God and at the same time I resented God for being who He is. Because if He was God then I couldn⤙t be. I would flip flop back and forth between saying, ⤜Thank you Lord that I⤙m not [the Lord] because even I⤙m a rotten steward. I would be a terrible Lord. I would flip flop back and forth between saying that and saying, ⤜Yeah but we⤙re going to do this my way right now so I do love you, I⤙m going to go my way so blinkâ¤|for a long time. You know, by the time you⤙ve gone through that long enough after you⤙ve beat your head up against that wall for a good decade. You come out of it and you have accomplished all of the damage that God wanted to save you from and all you can do at that point is go ⤜Wow, I am so sorry, that when you told me to walk in faith, I refused to do it. Now, I know why you gave the commands that you gave. Now I know why you said what you said. And I wish that I didn⤙t have to know that in order to obey it." Here's the song: Growing Young by Rich Mullins Matthew 19:13-14, Luke 15:11-24 I've gone so far from my home I've seen the world and I have known So many secrets I wish now I did not know 'Cause they have crept into my heart They have left it cold and dark And bleeding, Bleeding and falling apart And everybody used to tell me big boys don't cry Well I've been around enough to know that that was the lie That held back the tears in the eyes of a thousand prodigal sons Well we are children no more, we have sinned and grown old And our Father still waits and He watches down the road To see the crying boys come running back to His arms And be growing young Growing young I've seen silver turn to dross Seen the very best there ever was And I'll tell you, it ain't worth what it costs And I remember my father's house What I wouldn't give right now Just to see him and hear him tell me that he loves me so much And everybody used to tell me big boys don't cry Well I've been around enough to know that that was the lie That held back the tears in the eyes of a thousand prodigal sons Well we are children no more, we have sinned and grown old And our Father still waits and He watches down the road To see the crying boys come running back to His arms And when I thought that I was all alone It was your voice I heard calling me back home And I wonder now Lord What it was that made me wait so long And what kept You waiting for me all that time Was Your love stronger than my foolish pride Will You take me back now, take me back and let me be Your child 'Cause I've been broken now, I've been saved I've learned to cry, and I've learned how to pray And I'm learning, I'm learning even I can be changed And everybody used to tell me big boys don't cry Well I've been around enough to know that that was the lie That held back the tears in the eyes of a thousand prodigal sons Well we are children no more, we have sinned and grown old And our Father still waits and He watches down the road To see the crying boys come running back to His arms And be growing youngâ¤|Growing youngâ¤|Growing young 2 Thes 2:16 "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace, 17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word." "The reason true atheists (not your average "I-don't-like- what-mommy-and-daddy-say-so-I-hate-God" rebellious teen) are depressed is because atheism offers no hope, only proof. Proof of no hope." Mike Sorrow posted 03-08-200110:30 PM Grump Member 1967 Posts Member since: 01-11-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ does anyone else get even the slightest twinge at the thought of god being male? i personally have never been able to accept that idea. it repels me., ##I'm not afraid to admit that I masturbate club: member no. 648,294,024.## ## officially sick of sig files of all kinds##1 posted 03-08-200110:38 PM Stitches Member 224 Posts Member since: 01-21-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I just wanted to drop in and say "Hi!" I love reading abd catching up no all the posts in here.....whoever was posting the Dr.LAura letter,I have a comment. While I can take to heart and laugh at the sarcasm of the letter,only a fool would actually agree with it. It is so incredibly shallow minded and uneducated. Think about the time and context ib which those verses were used.....do you actaully think they were written to fit modern times? No,no........use your brain next time before making an ass of yourself. Freegrace : I am very familiar with the footprints story as a matter of fact......but I just cannot belive it anymore. I believe in a higher force at work,but it is not "God". I have the upmost respect for Christianity,in the idea that it is your belief structure. But it not mine......I walk a path that many do not. I am sure at least someone here is familiar with the basics of wicca. There is a religion I can more likely relate to........... See,we are not ALL Christians or Atheists in here......I don't even fit into a religious catagory. I have a question that I want you all to think about though....... What do you think will happen when you die? Are you going to go to heaven? Are you going to go to hell? Do you think it is simply the ned because you have no soul? I myself belive that life does not end after death. I incorporate a couple different ideas here...... I believe that when i die,I will have some choices. My spirit,my soul,will have to make a choice. I will have to evalute the life I have just lived,and decide if I did what I wanted to do. Have you ever just been naturally inclined to something? Or been deathly afraid of something for no apparent reason? that is the drive of your soul.....wishes or experiences from your past lives. It all lays in your subconcious...that 90% of your brain that you "don't use".if the spirit feel satisfied,it may chose to move on to a better place,i.e. become one with the All. The all is the mass energy of the universe and everything in it. It is not good,nor evil. It is balance. Or,the spirit may not even realize that it is dead yet. Or it maybe restless and and angry. Thus you have hauntings,sightings,medians,ouiji boards,ect.(don't start calling me crazy quite yet). The final option is to go back....back to life....and live another life to try and do what you did not get to do the last time. You are born again,and at first you know this because your subconcious reigns supreme. As you grow older,the concious mind takes over and you lose touch with the voice of your spirit. But,it is alwyas there....giving you dreams,deja vu,visions,guidance......motivation. So......after this life,I don't know what exactly I will do. Hell,I don't even know if this theory is "right". But it is my own and I respect it....just as I respect everyone elses beliefs. Ta Ta for now... "Life is a dream.......And dreams are dead....." I JUST WANTED TO GET AWAY FROM MYSELF,BUT NOW I AM DEEPPER THAN I EVER COULD HAVE IMAGINED. AND THERE IS NO ESCAPE FROM MY IMPRISONMENT OF A MIND......." posted 03-08-200111:50 PM Sativa Morpheus Member 4294 Posts Member since: 12-05-2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I just want to say hello Freegrace. You are here arent you? I just havent talked to you in awhile, so i just had to say hello posted 03-08-200111:57 PM Hoodwink Junior Member 10 Posts Member since: 03-06-2001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ whoever was posting the Dr.LAura letter,I have a comment. While I can take to heart and laugh at the sarcasm of the letter,only a fool would actually agree with it. It is so incredibly shallow minded and uneducated. Think about the time and context ib which those verses were used.....do you actaully think they were written to fit modern times? No,no........use your brain next time before making an ass of yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Haven't read the bible much, have you? "Some are more equal than others." posted 03-09-200112:29 AM All times are PST . << next newest topic | next oldest topic >> | Page:Next Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 |