String, Wire, and Chain

From: teeley2
Subject: display racks

I made a set of two inch steel galvanized chimes and tuned them to b-flat, c, d, e, f and g. They range from 18 inches to 24 inches and average about two pounds each. Maybe I won't use all of them. Instead of trying to hang them from the eaves of the house, I decided to make a freestanding rack to hold them. Then I found one of those chrome plated steel racks they use in stores for clothes. It was next to a dumpster behind a strip mall. Now I have to figure the best way to hang them. Maybe with light chains from Home Depot.

From: Brewmeister999
Subject: Re: Hanging heavy pipes

Joejoe, I have been working with 6" EMT recently.
I think I solved the hanging problem by using chain. What I did was use the formula for finding the "node"
and drilling two holes through the tubes at this point. I then ran a piece of threaded rod (3/8") through these holes. I bent the rod in the middle slightly, and as I passed the rod through, I ran it through the last link of the chain. A nut on each end finished the job. The chain will ride the center of the rod because of the bend I placed in the center.

From: joe2you2
Subject: Re: strong line for large chimes

For clapper material I've been playing with "Trex Wood" - the plastic wood used for outdoor decking. Nice dense material that's easily machineable and is impervious to the elements. Depending on the weight of your chimes you might look to your local sporting goods store for different fishing line. Got to have something that's abrasion resistant AND UV stable. Joe

From: "DENNIS EHRINGER" <dpehringer43@msn.com>
wind chime construction

Through experimenting, I recently tried a fishing line call Spider Wire. It is the most abrasion resistant and toughest line that I have ever found. It is very small in diameter for 12 lb test line. It is so strong that it is difficult to
cut the line with a knife. The pipes hang perfectly straight as does the striker.

From: "Elvin" <erdesign@citlink.net>
Subject: More Tube Stuff

Something I’ve done lately in hanging copper windchimes is to get leader wire (30 lb test or less) from a sporting goods store and tie a knot in one end, run it from the inside out and then loop it over the outside and then thread
it through the other outside hole bringing it up from the inner tube to tie another knot in it other end so the knots are hidden and its supported well.
Even though the thicker wire lessens the vibration, at least I know what sound it has will be ringing for a long time. Elvin

From: Brewmeister999
Subject: Re: Fishing line?

I have used the newer ultra strong "Spider" line with success. I have some chimes that I intentionally placed in direct sunlight that have lasted two years (so far) with no deterioration of the line. The most consideration should be given to the way the line is attached - where it gets the most abrasion The size of the holes does not seem to matter in my experience as long as they are at the "null" points. To date, the best results I have gotten is to use a cotter pin through the holes with the bend in the middle (to keep the line centered) and hang the line from there, rather than directly through the holes. I have a new design I'm playing with that involves hanging up to 8 pipes on a single piece of steel wire in a circle with decorative wooden beads between. Brew

From: joe2you2
Subject: Re: Fishing line?

I too have tried the "spiderwire" line but my problem was that I was using steel conduit so I put grommets in the holes but the line was so thin it ate it's way through the grommet in about 2 months then was abraded away by the conduit. This led me to using stainless steel wire down through the middle and something similar to Brew's cotter pin arrangement. (Hmmm, never did try the "spider wire" down through the middle though, I'll have to give it another look.) I've seen
some use small chain down the middle with some sort of cotter pin but I always thought that looked too utilitarian.

From: "Mike n Karen" <mikenkaren@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: 6 foot chime tubes

As an avid fisherman and amateur builder of chimes I have found an extremely long lasting material to suspend chimes indoors and out. Go to your nearest tackle shop and buy stainless steel plastic coated 80lb leader material. You can also
purchase the sleeves to pinch the line together with. As far as suspension lines passing thru the tubes, go to a good electrical supply shop and purchase the smallest rubber grommets they have which turns out to be perfect for the
stainless steel leader. The grommets do not seem to affect the tone of the tubes and the leaders last forever. I enjoy suggestions that all have made and also have learned from them, along with my own mistakes. Keep it up gang!!

From: "Rick" <slakk2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Another Windows application

Hi everyone,
I've written another program (HangIt) that calculates the length to hang each chime from the top piece so that the striker will hit the center of each chime. It's always been a pain for me to take the time to figure these measurements during final assembly. This does it all for you. It's free of course. The name of the program is HangIt. If you would like to use it you'll find it at the following link:

http://www.thewoodz.com/chimecalc/chimecalc.htm

Rick

From: "dustersmill" <dustersmill@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: String

Try Dacron polyester cord 3/32nds inches in diameter don’t know bout getting it locally but some links that I have are

http://www.thewireman.com/antacc.html

http://www.championradio.com/misc.html#rope

http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/dacron.htm

might be a little pricey but this stuff is BUILT for outdoor use and strong as all get out

From: "woodworking42002" <woodworking42002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Grommets and String

As for the grommets, I found something that works quite well. Home Depot or other stores carry, in their plumbing section, a refrigerator ice-making plastic hose. It's only 3/16" outside diameter, clear, and very strong. For a few dollars, you can buy a 25' length. I drilled 3/16" holes in the chime pipes, slid a section of the plastic hose through the pipe, and guided the string through. Since it's clear, it's barely noticeable. Since the hole in the chime pipe is the same size, it fits snugly. D-

From: "Mark Harris" <marksjob@cox.net>
Go to a marine supply store if you have one near by. Otherwise a good-sized sporting good store my work and pick up some fine stainless steel leader. It comes stranded or solid. You could get clever and make an internal bridal with ends of the stainless coming out of the cross drilled tube and blocked off with a crimp fitting (purchased at the same place) that join an internal wire going out the end to suspend the tube. This was only one wire would be apparent. Mark Harris

From: Denyce Alberts <o4281@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:How to knot wire/string?

There are probably any number of ways to "tie off" the material you use to hang the tubes, top plate, and striker/sail. Partly it depends on just what material you are using. For lightweight tubes, I use 12# to 20# fishing line. Several
tight square knots do the trick for me. For heavier tubes, I use 30# fishing line or picture hanging wire. Again, I use square knots on the fishing line.
For wire, I sometimes just twist it, but usually use a crimp ring. But if I'm out of crimp rings, I lay the cut end of the wire back upon itself and tightly wrap 18 ga. wire five or six times around the two strands, then crimp the 18 ga. wire so
that it is "smashed" tight against the hanging wire. Also, after tying square knots in the fishing line, I heat them to somewhat melt the knot together. I use an old curling iron for the purpose. I suppose you could use a soldering
iron, but be carefully that you don't melt the knot too much -- soldering irons get quite hot.

From: "Doug Wiseman" <dougwiseman@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: threading them

If you need something for larger chimes, I found 150# test stainless steel downrigger line at Galyan's (a sporting goods mega-store). The manufacturer is Mason Tackle Co, Otisville MI. The box shows some knots that might be helpful, too. This line is a very small/stiff cable (smaller in diameter than some fly fishing lines).

From: SteveB7167@aol.com
Subject: Cable attachments

I have read with interest of peoples various ways to attach small cable to chimes. Most use the crimps with are not very pleasing to look at even from a distance.
I was thinking about this and thought that I would share my attempts at the same thing only in a different hobby.
Many years ago I was into line control model airplanes. These were fairly large at about 42 in span and had to be held securely for safety reasons if nothing else. We had no access to crimps of any kind so we would use this technique.
Fold the wire into a loop so there is a loop of about 2.5 inches.
Then take some 30guage or so wire and start wrapping it over the 2 wires at about 1 inch so a 1-inch loop forms. I would wrap it away from the loop for about 3/4 to 1 inch. The wrap would be a tight as I could make it. Then I would fold the tail over the wrap again and continue wrapping only this time toward the loop. When I got back to where I started I would cut both the copper and cable flush. Then I would soak in resin soldering flux (not acid) and solder the copper wire completely. I never had a failure in the several years I did this and if done correctly it looks very nice. The flux can be
washed off with rubbing alcohol. Steve

From: "bmh1944" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Grinding/tuning

Thoughts about keeping the process of tuning longer chime tubes within the realm of both practical aesthetics and enjoyable pursuits – while remaining a pack rat, dumpster diver, and junkyard explorer in obtaining new materials for "tinker fodder".

As far as the tube cutting and other fabrication tools go, I've got a few very inexpensive tools that not only work very well for me, but also makes just about any process go much faster, easier, and prettier as a result. I wouldn't recommend going out and blowing the bank account on a bunch of cheap power tools if you're not already into building a lot of little projects or simply piddling with one or two sets of windchimes for something different to do; but, if you're already a bit of a tinker, a few new tools will help with many other endeavors as well. Just about everyone has a power drill, a power jig-saw, and a grinder; but, when doing very much fine cutting, drilling, and finishing of relatively thin wood or metal, it's almost imperative to have a little table-top drill press, a couple of cheap band saws, a power sander, and two power-grinding sets. Either Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Tool catalog, or National Tool catalog offer very inexpensive (less than $100) tools that work great for the tinker. Since I already had many of the tools listed, I only added a second band saw and a second grinder to make things go much smoother and faster. Here's the list of my junk:

1/2" Drill Press (bench/table-top type) - $79

9" Band Saw (bench/table-top type) fitted with fine-tooth wood blade -$99

9" Band Saw (same as above) fitted with fine-tooth metal cutting blade - $99

6" Bench Grinder (Ryobi "Thin-line") with medium and fine grinding wheels - $39

6" Bench Grinder (same as above) - replaced with cloth buffing wheels - $39

Combination disk/rotary table-top Sander - $89

Since much of what I do ends up being polished or very smooth, I used my $99 8-1/2" table saw to make a few different lengths of "tube cradles" by cutting a deep, "V-shaped" notch in a 2X4 and lining it with stick-on felt. I use these to hold the tube straight while drilling or cutting, and to prevent it from being scuffed or scratched in the process. After struggling with tubing cutters (that scratch things up and get pretty cumbersome with 1.5" and 2" OD tubing) and trying to "tune" a tube by grinding it down (while trying to keep an even end on the tube), I decided to try fitting my little
band saw with a fine-tooth metal cutting blade. Using the "tube cradle" and the saw's little feeding guide, it went through copper, aluminum, and steel tubing like hot butter; the fine-tooth blade left very little burring and no internal "lip" or slight inward swedging like the tubing cutter created. A quick touch against the fine disk sander smoothed the end, a little angled rotation took off the tiny bit of outer burr, the quick circular whisk of an old hook-billed linoleum knife gave a smooth chamfer to the tube's inner edge, and a few twists into a piece of "0" steel wool made the whole thing as
smooth as a baby's butt (but much cleaner).

When I was obsessed with attempting a precise tuning of the tube, it was much easier to lay it in the "cradle" and feed it back through the band saw; I could easily, smoothly, and uniformly take off as little as 1/16" with no problems at all - which beat the heck out of the uneven grinding/filing process. Since changing the blade in a little band saw is not something you just pop off and pop on, I decided to blow another 100 bucks on a second band saw to use for cutting any wooden parts I needed. The grinder is always a necessity for many things; but having a second grinder fitted with cloth
buffing wheels (using polishing compound or jeweler's rouge) saves much hard labor in polishing up tubes, sails, mounting halos, your kid's teeth, the parakeet's beak, the ring in your nose, and other things that look good when they're nice and shiny. The drill press is a must for quickly getting mounting holes straight, centered, and vertically aligned in tubes or mounting disks. Brent

From: "Doug Wiseman" <dougwiseman@prodigy.net>
Subject: Doug is finally done - new photo

I finally completed the chimes I made using Chuck's Dm plans. I think they turned out pretty nice for a first serious attempt. And the sound is incredible. They have an eerie/heavenly tone that rings for a long time fading softly. I used the thick-walled aluminum conduit recommended by Chuck. As I began the project I had no idea that they would sound so good.

Part of the beauty of the sound is due to the precise tuning I was able to achieve using a free small tuner download (98k). It allows tuning to the 1/100 Hz, which is more than overtones allow. If anyone is interested, here is a link for the 98k download:
http://vacworld.bzlogi.hu/minituner/download.html The downside is that I had to make many trips between the basement where my grinder
is and the desk where my PC is.

I posted a picture in the default folder. For those interested in details, some are barely visible. Photos of my suspension design were posted earlier but you can see the brass-knurled nuts on the chimes at the hanging pins.

One challenge of the project was concealing all of the knots and crimped ferrules. I decided early on that they were unsightly. I only used the ferrules at the terminations inside the chimes. The stiffness of the stainless cable was both a curse and a blessing. It allowed me to use a very simple knot to secure the ends because it would hold a bent shape. Tying the knots required patience. I drilled holes just wide and deep enough in the redwood to conceal the knots. I tied these ends to metal buttons I purchased at a fabric store (so the button and cable are the only things you see). There were only
two knots that did not occur at redwood ends. These were at the hanging ring and at the sail where I used an aluminum bushing to conceal the knot.

The hanging ring is a hollow 1 1/2" aluminum "descending ring" used in rappelling to recover rope. It was available locally for only $2.50 at REI and will not rust like a zinc or brass plated one might.

I know it won't stay looking as nice as today, but I helped protect it from dulling elements by using a polymer auto wax on the aluminum. I blended linseed oil with a wood preservative to protect the redwood. The linseed oil penetrates and adds hardness to the redwood, which is very soft otherwise. Doug

From: "Maury Gilburne" <maurgil@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Rebuilding windchimes

Easy solution,

When you restring the chimes, you are looking to balance the hanging weight.
Imagine you have a six-pointed star. Number them consecutively, from 1 to 6. Hang the longest at point 1. The second longest at point 4. The third longest at point 5. The fourth longest at point 2. The fifth longest at point 3. And
finally the shortest at point 6.
This is really for balance only...so that the chimes will hang properly.

Now to start the hanging. Let me oversimplify; Measure and mark the center, top to bottom, of the longest chime. This is the point that you want the clapper to strike for the best sound. Now hang the longest chime about 2-1/2" below the
bottom of the top. Mark the center of the remaining five chimes. As you hang each chime, align the center mark with that on the longest one and tie off. This should result in all the center lines being on the same plane... therefore as the clapper swings it will hit the vertical center of each chime..."the sweet spot"

Finding windchime string that will take the abuse and hold a knot hard been hard to find. I finally found a European mfg. that is producing cordage specifically for the windchime industry. Small quantities are available on my Internet company.
The company name is windchimes by the inch.com Maury Gilburne

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: suspending by chain

Jim;

As usual, most of what I've written is usually from tinkering experience and dumb luck rather than a plan of action that's either scientifically or mathematically based.

Experience has shown that a tube's "node" is only the point of least vibration and not a point of NO vibration. So any node suspension media or mounting technique that tends to impede vibration seems to have a pronounced effect on how long a tube will sustain it's tone. I've also noticed that loose suspension axles don't seem to work as well as ones that are securely welded, brazed, soldered, or glued (JB Weld) to the tube. Maybe it's because the slight bit of "play" in a loose suspension axle begins vibrating inside the node hole and acts as a bit of a dampening factor where a solidly-affixed axle becomes
an integral part of the tube.

I'm not able to scientifically explain why I've not had good luck with any type of chain suspension on any type of tube; but I think it's probably a due in part to the chain not being a uniformly integral medium - and partly because the chain has a relatively high mass and heavy weight that helps dampen vibration. I say this only because I've used many different types and weights of light chain in suspension experiments; the best of the poor results was on heavier copper tubes, and the worst results were on very light aluminum tube.

If I'm using aluminum tubing, I prefer using a solid-mounted, inverted "V" suspension axle and single-line suspension using either small diameter braided nylon, monofilament, or "Spiderwire" braided fishing line (depending on tube size and length) for the best results. When I graduate into much larger and much heavier tubes of copper or brass, I still prefer the same suspension method – but using extremely small diameter steel cable as suspension line.

Whether the much higher level of tone dampening I've noticed is due to increased weight (higher mass inertia), having loose multiple links instead of a contiguous property, a little of both, or something entirely different - there's not been any chain I've tried that has ever provided an acceptable degree of performance as a tube suspension medium. Brent

From: cllsj
Subject: Re: suspending by chain

The tube and suspension form a system. The frequency response is based on the system and not just the tube. Even if we don't want it to be so. If the suspension system can be isolated completely from the tube then is would have no effect on the tube. However, that is generally not the case. A light suspension system (less mass) will have less of an effect than a heavier suspension system. Chuck

From: Brew <brewmeister999@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: suspending by chain

I have built at least ten sets of the "Big Ben" chimes from Chuck's website. A few were hung with Spider Wire fishing line. The rest were suspended with #16 jack chain. Maybe it has something to do with the ratio weight of the long, heavy EMT tubes, but I can discern NO difference in either sound quality or the "sustain" of the notes. Possibly it has something to do with the tubes being cut to the 4th natural frequency and it's shorter node point.

I have given this much thought, and for the life of me cannot see what the difference of suspension material would have on the oscillating movement of the tube, as long as the wire/chain/line does not contact the sides of the tube.

I use both fixed and loose "inverted V" supports. Whether its chain or line hanging in this "V" has little effect on the sinusoidal movement of the tube. I see more potential for the WEIGHT of the tube itself putting pressure on the drilled node holes to have a measurable effect on the quality of the note - NOT the material that is used to suspend the tubes (Unless its completely RIGID

I think there is more potential sound dampening if lightweight aluminum tubes are used. Then the weight
of the suspension material may come into play.

Sorry guys, I can't agree on this one! LOL - if we agreed on everything we wouldn't need a discussion group. Brew

From: lamaroney
Subject: a month's worth of questions

Hello, I haven't posted before but have been following the forum for a while now. I've made roughly (in every sense) 20 - 25 chimes that are scattered over 7 acres, mostly using EMT, but also the remains of a chain link fence that we took apart. I haven't used the upright posts yet (about 4 inches wide) but the cross pieces are all used. There’s also the smattering of oddities, rusted tools, barrel rings, etc. I am predominantly a woodworker and feel out of my element working with metal so please bear with my ignorance.

"If I'm using aluminum tubing, I prefer using a solid-mounted, inverted "V" suspension axle and single-line suspension..."

I'm intrigued by the inverted "V" suspension axle. I think I have a grip on what you mean but can't be sure.

"End-capped tubes that are center suspended from the cap (upper antinode)"

I've only ever sweat copper pipes (plumping and trellises) - are you talking about welding caps onto the pipes with a welded wire ring on top?

Who is the creator of the photo album "windchime construction"?
Cap beads on the ends of the axle pins?

And have you all listened to the Syntrillium wind chime program? You can have wind chimes playing on your computer that you can configure - Syntrillium was bought out by Adobe but there are still a couple places to find it online.
http://www.saphir.u-net.com/toys/chimes.htm

And Brew, since you like the 'discussion' side of the group... You said, "cannot see what the difference of suspension material would have on the oscillating movement of the tube, as long as the wire/chain/line does not contact the sides
of the tube." Ok, I admit this is not my field. But if vibration is a form of energy, as say, electricity, then like electricity following a path of connection, the energy of the vibrations would be transferred to whatever the suspension material was, even if it didn't hit the sides of the tube just by its point of connection. And following that, wouldn't the size of the connection determine the transfer rate of energy? Just a question. Obviously I'll go to lengths to avoid what I should be doing. I'm actually supposed to be downstairs framing up a wall but this is so much more interesting.
Especially since it's warm up here and the kitchen is gutted and missing most of an exterior wall and it's 19 degrees out there this morning. Thanks, Linna

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: a month's worth of questions

Linna;

You should finish the kitchen soon because you'll quickly tire of eating TV dinners warmed over a candle - lol. I'll try to answer a few of your questions without taking more than two month's worth of words to do it - as usual.

I will be the first to admit that good steel tubing (EMT, old chain-link fence posts, etc.) probably produce the brightest, loudest, and longer sustained tone in tubes of less than 2"OD, tuned at the first natural frequency (in the "ideal" range), and usually shorter than about 3.5 feet in length. I don't personally use steel tubing simply from the aesthetics problem of eventual rust at the node holes or cut ends where the zinc galvanizing is not present.

Regardless of aesthetics, personal preference has always made me shy away from steel because anything other than loose-fitting suspension axles (like permanently affixed node axles or capping) requires welding or high-heat brazing - which further destroys any galvanized coating and makes it even more susceptible to rust.

Aluminum tubing is the next best to steel in producing frequencies in the lower middle to high range; but it too requires a MIG welder for permanently affixing anything. If one gets a little practice at using a MIG welder, suspension axles can be welded in place with a little bit of aluminum beaded up on the outer surface of the tube; then a little careful grinding/filing and polishing will leave the outer surface of the tube in a pristine condition that almost defies anyone
finding the weld points.

In long tubes of diameters over 3"OD (tuning for the first natural frequency in the "ideal" range) I've noticed that copper and brass seem to sound much better in those lower ranges because the heavier, more flexible tubing seems to sustain the lower frequencies longer and dampen out the higher undesired overtones quicker than either aluminum or steel. Yet, copper and brass are a catch-22 because weight quickly becomes an issue in larger OD, longer tubes. Copper is much easier to work with because capping (if desired) with a preformed plumbing cap or solid mounted node axles can all be sweated in place (with lead-free, high tin plumbing solder) using a relatively low-heat propane torch.

I hope you haven't been confused by the past thoughts on inverted-V axles and capping because they are very different animals. The inverted-V is located and mounted at the tube's upper node (.2242 times total tube length) from the end of the tube. Node holes are drilled at that point just like you were going to suspend the tube with the conventional v-shaped, dual-point suspension by a piece of line or mono running through the holes and suspended at each end from the suspension disk or halo; then the axle is fitted into those node holes. Capping a tube (like brass orchestra chimes) involves single
line suspension from the upper antinode via hole in the cap and a knot in the suspension line to keep it from pulling through the hole. So, the inverted-V method is single-line node suspension while the capped method is antinode suspension.

You can get away with a lot higher successful "fudge factor" in using different types of suspension media (string, mono, wire, small cable, tire chains, etc.) because you're suspending the tube at a node point of least vibration. If you want to experiment with capping and single-line antinode suspension, you'll be suspending the tube from its highest vibration point; so using cable, wire, or chain of any type will simply not work. The only thing I have found to be successful is
either monofilament or thin braided nylon with at least 5" of suspension line between the top of the tube and the suspension disk.
The mono and nylon not only have a high degree of "limpness" but also have a high degree of stretch factor as well. The 5" (or more) length of this type suspension material lets the tube vibrate and dance on the end of a very flexible/stretchable medium (like a fish on the end of a line) that I've not found to produce any more tone dampening than node suspension.

Brent

From: cllsj
Subject: Re: suspending by chain

--- In windchimeconstruction@yahoogroups.com, cllsj <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> The tube and suspension form a system. The frequency response is > based on the system and not just the tube. Even if we don't want it to be so. If the suspension system can be isolated completely from the tube then is would have no effect on the tube. However, that is generally not the case. A light suspension system (less mass) will > have less of an effect than a heavier suspension system.
>
> Chuck

Perhaps I should think about this some more as I'm not sure my answer really has any bearing on the frequency heard. The frequency of pendulum mode of the tube swinging on the suspension system yes indeed, but not the frequency heard. Chuck

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: preferred material for hanging

Mike;

I'm rapidly becoming a major fan of stainless steel cable (wire rope) for chime tube support line because I prefer the lower toned chimes and haven't messed around much lately with anything less than 2"OD tubing; but the thin cable works very well on 1"OD copper or brass with a considerably higher weight than aluminum. For the small OD and very light chime tubes, I still think the thinner, more flexible line with greater linear elasticity produce less dampening and allow a longer sustained tone; yet, there's always the relatively short line longevity and frequent replacement to deal with. If you're using heavier tubes of at least 1"OD copper and brass or 2"OD aluminum, I'll vote for using 1/32" (.03125") diameter stainless steel, 1x19, aircraft grade, wire rope (twisted strand cable) as a very good suspension line that will last a lifetime. It is extremely small in diameter, very flexible, is easy to work with, always keeps its shiny silver hue, is almost totally weather and pollution resistant, offers an extremely low reactance with other metals, and has a 150 pound
test strength that will support almost any chime tube with little or no tone dampening.

To answer your question, I personally use only two methods of hooking the cable suspension line to an inverted-V node axle because of the one major "gotcha" of the cable's extremely abrasive characteristics. You can't allow a loose cable joint around a node axle of any metal (well, other than a drill bit) because the very fine windings will act like a tiny file that will eventually cut completely through the axle from the constant rocking motion of the tube in the wind. With
either method, you must attach the cable to the axle BEFORE you fit the axle into the tube. The nice thing about SS cable is that you can then solder, braze, or weld the axle into the tube (if so desired) without doing any damage at all to the cable.

I usually use the "tight cable" method for smaller OD tubing because there's less bulk involved and the chance for contact against the tube's inner wall is greatly reduced. I file a little flat spot on each side of the inverted-V axle, and then clamp the axle firmly in a vise (with plastic jaw inserts to keep from buggering it up). I make two wraps around the axle with the cable, gently squeeze the cable down against the flat spots with a pair of smooth-jawed pliers, and then slide the crimping sleeve over both ends of the cable. I use the crimping tool in one hand to grasp the sleeve and the pliers in the other hand to pull on the short end of the cable; while pulling hard on the short end of the cable with the pliers and pushing the sleeve as tight against the axle as I can with the crimpers, I give it all a crunch and crimp it in place. This keeps it tight around the axle and doesn't allow any abrasive movement.

For larger OD tubing, I usually use a miniature cable thimble to do a loose axle attachment. Most places that sell the very small cable will also supply the little cable thimbles that are a grooved, teardrop-shaped bushing with a smooth, rounded inner surface. The thimble goes over the axle and provides a smooth, non-abrasive swivel connection; the cable routes in the groove around the outer portion of the thimble, and is crimped at the "point" of the teardrop. You don't have to do much cable tugging during the crimp because the shape of the thimble will restrict cable movement without the cable
being extremely tight.

I've always had the personal fault of over-kill when building something because I hate to keep regularly going back to fix or refurbish something that falls apart in a few years from exposure to the elements. Because of my inherent laziness, I like to build things that work well, look reasonably good, and are pretty much "no maintenance" from now on; and it's for that reason that the SS cable is suddenly becoming the greatest thing since heated outhouse seats. I've not done any extensive comparative experiments with a bunch of different OD's of tubing and types of metal, but when playing with a
1-1/2"OD copper tube and a 2"OD aluminum tube a few months ago, I couldn't find any discernible difference between good SS wire rope and any other type of suspension line.

Here's a couple of notes for anyone wanting to experiment with fine SS cable. First, it's fairly pricey, and you need to do a lot of online shopping to find the best prices (which change very often). Usually, you can buy a little larger spool for a lot less per foot if you think you'll be using much of it. Be advised that there are two or three different configurations (depending on manufacturer) for even 1/32" diameter cable, which will be shown by the configuration number. A number of 1x7 means there is a single center strand with 6 outer strands twisted around it. A 1x13 rating will be a single center strand, a second layer of 4 strands, with an outer layer of 8 strands. The 1x19 rating is a single center strand, a surrounding layer of 6 strands, and an outer layer of 12 strands. If you consider that all of these configurations are still making a cable that's 1/32" in diameter, it's obvious that the 1x7 is using thicker strands
of wire, and will be much stiffer cable. Going to the other end of the scale, the 1x19 will be many more strands of very fine wire to get the same diameter of cable; thus, it is considerably more flexible, provides less degree of dampening, and is much easier to work with. The configuration number is only an indication of the cable's inherent degree of flexibility, but the same diameter of cable will have the same test strength regardless of the configuration.

If you ever decide to go into the extreme chime category in the "chimezilla" range, the 3/64" diameter cable has a 300-pound test strength, and the 1/16" diameter will get you into the 500 pound arena for hanging a few Chevy short blocks.
Brent

From: Ballou Family <ballou.family@verizon.net>
Subject: Cable

Brent -

Are you sure about the designation and make-up of your cables? If they are aircraft cables they should be made up like rope, with small strands of wire twisted together to make coils and a number of coils twisted together to make the cable. Take a piece of yours apart and see if that doesn't better describe what you have.

I have two kinds of SS cable. -- 1/16" - 7x7 which is 1/16-inch total diameter made up of 7 coils with 7 strands of wire per coil. One coil runs straight down the center with six others twisted around it. This cable has practically no
stretch, due to the center wire core.

-- 3/64" - plastic coated 3x7 which is 3/64-inch total diameter made up of 3 coils with 7 strands of wire per coil. After the 3 coils are twisted together they are coated in a soft rubber like plastic. This one has much more flexibility and allows some stretch, as it is has no central core. This is the one I used on the single chime.

I don't know what the breaking strength is for either of these, but with proper aircraft type swaged on fittings I've put a 1000-pound load on the 1/16" 7x7 and it held up. (No, I wouldn't stand under a 1000 pound weight with this cable its only support.)

Mike

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Cable

Mike;

Yup, totally sure of the designation cause I've already done the trophy inspection on it a few months ago. I know exactly what you're saying, and the particular configuration you describe is also very common. This stuff has no particular aircraft nomenclature, but most of the places I've found it simply list it as aircraft/aerospace grade SS cable.

The 1x7, 1x13, and 1x19 configuration I described is ONLY for the 1/32" diameter cable that I use. When there are 19 strands that make up a single 1/32" diameter cable, you can see just how fine the individual wire strands would be. They're drawn and linear "bundled" in the manner I described, then the whole package is twisted as a single cable.

As you've noticed, cable designation/configuration numbers are the best way to determine its construction. The first number will be the number of individual coils (mini-cables) used to make the whole cable, and the last number will be the number of strands used to make each individual coil (or mini-cable). So, the 1x19 tells you there is only ONE single coil that makes up the entire cable and 19 strands used to make the single coil. The 3x7 (as you have noticed) means there are 3 mini-coils used to make the cable and each mini-coil has 7 strands; the 7x7 is using seven mini-coils with 7 strands per coil.

The cable (wire rope) "rule of thumb" I've been able to determine with not a lot of major research is three-fold:
1. Most cable made of the same material and of the same diameter will be very close to having similar tensile strengths, but the cable with fewer/thicker strands is usually the highest rated.
2. The more strands there are in a given diameter of cable, the finer (smaller diameter) the individual strands will be; and the cable with the highest number of finer strands will be the most flexible, and the cable with the fewest number of thicker strands will be the stiffest.
3. While the finer strand cable is the most flexible, it is also the easiest to abrade and "fuzz out" under abrasive/friction causing use; so the stiffer cable with thicker/fewer strands is best for tough abrasive applications.

If you look at the "numbers" thing, the 1/32" diameter, 1x19, single-coil cable I'm using is 50% smaller in diameter than the 3/64" diameter, 3x7 cable you describe. Since the 1x19 has 19 strands and is 50% smaller than the 21-strand 3x7 cable the strands are much finer in the 1x19 and probably give more flexibility per mean cable diameter. I'd imagine that the 1/32" cable I saw in the 1x13 configuration would probably have strands close in diameter to those in the 3/64" diameter 3x7 you described.

If it doesn't pique your thoughts, it's starting to light mine up and make me think about doing a little research on what would be more flexible in very small diameter, wire rope cable. I may be totally wrong, but I seem to remember back when I was surfing for small cable that I found a place that sold 1/32" diameter SS cable in a 3x7 configuration. That would have 21 strands compared to the 19 strands in the cable I'm using now; but I'm also wondering (in such a small diameter cable) how the degree of flexibility would compare between the single-coil configuration and the multi-coil configuration when
using close to the same total number of strands?

I've seen some really small diameter cable that's plastic jacketed like you've got, but I don't remember if I've ever seen any jacketed SS cable. As far as using it for windchime suspension, I think plastic coating over stainless steel is pretty much a moot point and a counter productive idea. Not only will the plastic increase the diameter and decrease the flexibility, but sooner or later the UV will have the plastic hardening even more, cracking, and sloughing off - not good. So, that's why I've gone with nothing but bare SS cable, because it's gonna last longer than I do - and not get all ugly and wrinkled in the process - LOL.

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: suspending by chain

Chuck;

I believe that your thinking is falling in line with most of what I've found by numerous trial and error experiments in the past. While I have never done any spectrum analysis comparisons, the Fred Flintstone method of "ear-balling" the sound of any particular tube under different suspension methods didn't really detect any difference in the basic tonal frequency being produced. The major noticeable difference was with how long that particular tube's tone was sustained in length of time. Admittedly, I've not done a lot of playing with steel tubing, but I've gone to both ends of the practical weight spectrum by experimenting with various suspension techniques and suspension media for very light aluminum and relatively heavy copper or brass.

I fully agree with Brew in not completely disregarding the use of very light chain because I've had good success on a few sets when using such; but in all cases of success, it was using light chain with relatively larger OD, longer, heavier copper or brass tubing. I've tried using very light aluminum chain on smaller aluminum tubes with very poor results when compared to using a thinner, lighter suspension medium.

I think your first suggestions for considering the weight, mass, even diameter (more/less air resistance) ratio of the suspension medium compared to the same physical aspects of the tube play a major role in resulting in either good or poor results - e.g. very light, relatively small OD/short aluminum tubes need an extremely thin, very light-weight suspension medium to prevent major dampening of the tube's ability to sustain vibration - where much heavier tubes can be suspended by considerably heavier media because the mass/weight ratio of suspension media to tube weight allows for such.

Anyone thinking that nothing is going on at a tube's node needs only to use any tube as a "norm" for experimenting with suspension techniques or suspension media. First, one can simply grasp the tube's node point with their fingers (or anything else they choose) then give it a little whack; it may "ring" much better than grasping it anywhere else along its length, but it will still be pretty lackluster because your fingers are providing a major dampening effect to what is happening at the node.

I've done much of my experimenting on light aluminum tubes because this is where you'll notice the greatest degree of dampening to the tube's ability to sustain vibration (in seconds) by the suspension medium used. Again, I think it's due mostly to both the flexibility of the suspension media and the weight ratio of the suspension media to tube weights. I've taken a single 1"OD aluminum tube that I'd cut in the "ideal range" (at the first natural frequency) and fitted with a solid-mounted, inverted-V node suspension axle. I simply hung that tube with various diameters of braided nylon, monofilament fishing line, "Spiderwire" braided polymer line, 32ga SS wire, and extremely light aluminum chain.

NOTE: I've noticed so many different results from striking a tube in the same spot with the same implement because it's impossible to strike it in pretty much the same place with the same degree of force, I built myself a little "test whacker". It's nothing more than a little spring-loaded nylon hammer device (like hits grandfather clock chime rods) that I can cock, then trip a release to let it fly. By marking my impact point on a tube with a magic marker and hanging
it exactly the same distance from the test-whacker, I can get a pretty good estimate of sustained tone length by simply "ear-balling" the tone and clocking its duration with a cheap stop watch I keep in the back of my cave - lol.

Maybe this will be of no use to anyone, but the bottom line of producing the longest sustained tone from the tube was always from using the thinnest, lightest, most flexible, most elastic suspension medium. I think this gives a lot of weight to the fact that the less mass/inertia resistance that the suspension medium gives to the node point, the longer the tube will sustain vibration. In all cases, I used 12" of suspension media, hung the tube from the same device, and struck it with the same force, with the same device, in the same marked spot on the tube for each timing test.

A single strand of 6-pound test monofilament gave almost the best of all; the absolute best was cutting a thin rubber band in two, looping and tying one end to the node axle, and tying the other end to the 6 pound mono - but such isn't too practical for outdoor longevity in the weather. Using very thin braided nylon line was the next best; but as I slightly increased the diameter of either the nylon line or monofilament (heavier test weight) the sustained tone length of the
tube begin to decrease rapidly. Surprisingly, the very thin, very flexible "Spiderwire" braided polymer wasn't quite as good as the mono or extremely thin nylon line - which could be explained by the fact that (while being extremely "limp" and flexible) it is advertised as having the same, virtually zero, longitudinal elasticity as steel wire. The light aluminum chain was next down on the list because it was probably heavier in total weight than the others and also didn't have any longitudinal elasticity. Bottom performance on the list was the SS wire; while it had very light weight, it had a very low degree of flexibility and almost zero elasticity - which seems to give credence to going with the lightest weight, most flexible, most elastic suspension media for best sustained tone length in a tube.

At the totally opposite end of the scale, I ended up using something like 1,000-pound test steel cable to suspend the tubes
of "chimezilla"; but since the largest tube was about 8 feet of 5"OD, very thick-walled copper (which tipped the scales around 178 pounds), I could have probably used a length of steel log chain and got pretty good results when looking again at the weight ratios of tube to suspension medium. I did suspend it earlier with 500-pound test braided nylon rope and got a noticeable improvement in sustained tone length; but I opted out for the steel cable because it still did very well (flexibility plus weight/ratio thing), and I didn't want a 178 pound tube falling on someone after a few years of UV exposure. Brent (aka Fred Flintstone)

From: Ballou Family <ballou.family@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: suspending by chain

In making the chimes I just posted about, I did use a very light copper plated chain made of flat, folded over links. (Does that make sense?) There was a slight shortening of ring duration over braided line, but not so much as to make them less pleasant and the wife likes the look of the chain better.
Truth #1: If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. Mike

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Help! please.

Mike;

Looks like you did your homework and went to Chuck's site for the "ideal" range for the steel tubing you found at the first natural frequency. Hey, 3G is pretty cool and would probably make a nice low toned single tube chime. The internal striker would probably work pretty well if you hung it for a lower strike just inside the end of the tube; just cut the striker disk around 1.5" in diameter so you'll have the "rule of thumb" 3/4" clearance between the striker and any part of the tube. If you went with an internal striker that hit the inside middle of the tube, your sail line would be so long that it
would be touching the lower inside wall of the tube much of the time and probably cause a lot of undesirable dampening.

Trying to make shorter tubes from what you have would pull you far out of the "ideal" range and most likely not sound nearly as good as the single tube at the right length. Maybe you can scrounge up a lot more pieces of the same type of tubing (for a set) and start getting into "chimezilla" range with total weight - LOL. Brent

From: "Gil" <maurgil@cox.net>
Subject: Grommets,string Samples

There has been a lot written on the use of grommets to protect the string as it passes thru the windchime. Rubber grommets, glue-on grommets.... they have their shortcomings. I have been using a plastic grommet, a very satisfactory, lasting solution and a quick easy installation, on aluminum. One size for 1/16" wall thickness and another for 1/8" wall thickness. I just realized that they have a tolerance that will allow them to work successfully, in most cases, even though the wall thickness is slightly different. The 1/8" grommet works perfectly on thin wall steel conduit and the other would probably do as well with other wall thicknesses of copper etc.etc.

Now for the string...I have been supplying a quality braided windchime string, such as used by most commercial windchime manufacturers. It 0.039" dia.... thicker than fishing line and much more durable in the sunshine. It is
150 lb test. However, I tend to over-engineer. I wanted a string that was not only strong but looked strong as well. I have been after my mill to make a short run to accommodate my needs. They finally agreed and it arrived today.

They are all braided string for strength. Here is what I have:

The standard string - 0.039"
New String "A" 0.063" (1/16")
"B" 0.094" (3/32")
"C" 0.125" This is great for hanging the chime.

I am excited by the new arrivals. If you care to have samples, go to my website www.windchimesbytheinch.com for my phone number or direct Email address. I'll send you samples of the grommets and the newly arrived string. Gil

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: the line to hang tubes or chimes from

Deb;

Read back in the recent postings because there's been a lot of discussion on that. Gil sells a wide range of suspension lines that would all probably last longer than monofilament (fishing line). After my tongue-in-cheek comments about not making pea-shooter chimes in the sissy range anymore, I've gone exclusively to using very fine 1/32" diameter stainless steel cable; but that only works well with the single-line suspension from an inverted-V axle and wouldn't work very well for the traditional suspension of running a line through both node holes of the chime tube.

"Spiderwire" braided polymer fishing line (from Walmart) is very thin and has a tensile strength equal to the same diameter of steel wire, but it only comes in either dark green or dark brown color. It has excellent UV resistance from the sun to a much higher degree than most other materials (nylon, polyester, Dacron, etc.) used to make strong flexible line.

Gil's website is listed in a few of the recent past postings, so you might check to see what he has to offer. Brent

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chime suspension and Attenuation

Mike;

When we were bantering back and forth about the pros and cons of chain suspension, I was pushing toward the concept of keeping the weight/mass/diameter ratios of the suspension medium as small as possible compared to those of the chime tube to prevent excessive dampening by the suspension line.

Chuck either authored or presented a bit of text with the gist of saying that anything being attached to a resonant tube or rod would logically and physically become an integral part of that device and have some effect on it's performance. Chuck then rescinded that thought because the suspension medium would not change the frequency of the resonant transverse fundamental mode even though it could be considered an integral component. I agree with his thoughts along that line because the tube's fundamental transverse mode is primarily determined by the OD and length - not the suspension medium. However, while that "integral component" of suspension medium will not change any resonant mode frequencies, it can certainly add a major degree of impedance that can dissipate (dampen) much of the tube's initial vibration energy and greatly reduce the length of time the tone vibration is sustained.

The node point we all use for suspension is only a "null" point of least vibration; but it is definitely NOT a point of NO vibration. Anyone not buying this idea can experiment with an aluminum chime tube which has the least weight per foot as comparable sized tubing of most other metals we commonly use for chimes. If one thinks the suspension medium does not become an integral component of the tube with respect to sustained tone length, try suspending that same tube using a thick piece of stiff rope, then a solid piece of heavy gauge wire, then a thinner section of nylon line, then a very fine length
of monofilament; then clock the difference in how long the tone is sustained with each suspension line when the tube is struck in the same spot with the same force.

I think the bottom line is that anything that tends to suppress the vibrations happening at the node point to any degree will also decrease the length of time the tube's vibration is sustained by a proportional degree. The optimum sustained tone from a resonant tube would be if it weren't suspended at all and floating unattached in a zero gravity environment; but since that is not possible, the finer, lighter, more flexible, more elastic suspension medium will offer the best performance possible. Unfortunately, the best suspension medium for performance has extremely low durability and isn't practical; so everything done to improve strength and longevity is a bit of a trade off in optimum sustained tone length.

I use the extremely thin, very flexible SS cable with very good success on the longer, larger OD tubing I prefer to use; but there's also a noticeably better performance with very thin mono line – so it's a bit of a trade off for practicality and longevity versus absolute maximum performance. When any aluminum tube grows smaller in OD (less than 2"), overall length, and weight, the SS cable begins to produce enough dampening to become unacceptable for my picky standards, and I'm forced to return into the "sissy chime" arena with suspension line - lol.

Anyway, Mike's thoughts did break a little rust loose from the gears in this poor tinker's mind. I might try a little experiment with a short, light aluminum pea-shooter of maybe 1"OD by seeing what would happen if I were to suspend it with a piece of the SS cable that was "spliced" (so to speak) by sleeve-crimping the end of the cable to the end of a thin, braided nylon line - which, in turn, would be attached to the node axle by a sliding slip-knot. The short piece of nylon line would add a major degree of both flexibility and elasticity to the tube's node axle (that would be lacking with a
direct connection to the SS cable). If the slipknot were worked so the crimp-joint was down inside the tube, it would still look good, the nylon line would be protected from UV exposure, and probably last for many years. Just another wild thought. Brent

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chime suspension and Attenuation

Charles;

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, but simply try using any tube from a set you're making and experiment a little with different suspension mediums because I've found that nothing is ever carved in stone when it comes to what works best
with any particular set.

It's going back to agreement with Chuck's posting about the suspension medium becoming an integral part of the chime tube. While it will not affect the mode frequencies, it will definitely affect how long they are able to sustain themselves after the initial strike.

I still think it has much to do with the overall weight of the tube compared to the relative weight, flexibility, and even elasticity of the suspension line. Aluminum tubes are the ones where I've found the greatest degree of influence from the suspension medium used because they are very light to begin with. I've hung heavy copper tubes with 1/8" diameter braided nylon (trot-line cord) and noticed very little change in sustained tone length over using thin mono; but using the same on a light aluminum tube is almost like having it in stuck in your back pocket when it's struck.

So, after you've run the gambit of using Chuck's calculator to figure what length you want to cut the tubes, then deciding on what type of suspension method to use, you'll be ready to experiment with different types of line, wire, cable, chain, or whatever to see what degree of dampening you're willing to trade off for better longevity of the suspension line. Thin mono always produces the least amount of dampening in my experience; but after a few months outside, it won't be raindrops that are falling on your head.

The elasticity you lose when using Spiderwire braided polymer, wire, cable, or light chain doesn't seem to play too much of a role in heavier tubes of copper, steel, or large OD/long aluminum; but in shorter, lighter tubes, the lack of elasticity in the line becomes pretty noticeable.

Back to the original thought - make your tubes, then experiment, experiment, experiment. Brent

From: Ballou Family <ballou.family@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Chime suspension and Attenuation

Agreed. I too doubt the longitudinal or shear components contribute directly to the perceived pitch, except where they interact with the compression waves. I was thinking more about how restricting those components may have an over-all dampening effect, thereby shortening the duration of the sound, not the pitch. Mike

From: "Charles" <the_righter@excite.com>
Subject: No more music wire...

Well, I won't be using music wire... The stuff is just too stiff to work with for my "little" aluminum tubes. I have some plain old' "coat hanger" that is just about the same diameter, so I've substituted that for the time being.
I'm aware of potential problems (no pun intended) due to the contact between dissimilar metals. I didn't feel that it would be critical in this case. Perhaps I am being naive? (Wouldn't be the first time.) And, since I'm using JB Weld, my thinking was that the goo would serve as an insulator between the metals, thus offering further protection. I had not given thought to rust since it doesn't pose much of a problem here beyond a patina. But, on a thin axel with an abrasive attachment, it could become a much greater concern. I just want sufficient strength to support the aluminum tube. My lengths are yet to be determined. The aforementioned 48 to 60 length is a worst case (with regard to weight) based on the lengths of leftover material.
Someone suggested cotter pins a while back. They look tempting to me. A third of the bending (for the inverted V) is already done. Charles

From: "Larry Rake" <lrake@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: hanging ring above cords

----- Original Message -----
From: drivermlb
To: windchimeconstruction@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:50 PM
Subject: [Wind Chimes Construction] hanging ring above cords

> where in the world do I find the stainless steel ring that you run > the upper cords thru to hang and balance the chime on?? I have > searched many different site's and have had no luck! All help will > truly be welcome! drivermlb

I've found a great place to buy stuff online.

· Stainless steel rings --- page 1265 of catalog

· Stainless steel wire rope --- page 1246 of catalog

· Wire Rope Thimbles --- page 1262 of catalog

· Compression Sleeves and Tools for Wire Rope --- page 1256 of catalog

· Info for wire rope --- 1244 of catalog

The place to go is McMaster-Carr catalog on line. They can be found @ http://www.mcmaster.com/
You can find lots of great stuff there for wind chimes. I've used them quite a bit for my stuff. Great prices too. Larry

From: "Michael Ballou" <ballou.family@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: hanging ring above cords

Boating supply store. Mike

From: "dougwiseman777" <dougwiseman@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: hanging ring above cords

I looked extensively when I was making some chimes for my wife. I wanted the chimes to be durable and top quality. Stainless rings were available, but expensive and not available at a local store. I also considered key rings and rings for light fixtures, but tossed these thoughts when I found most to be brass with very cheap plating. The ones displayed with the rope and chain at the hardware store were the worst. The plating would actually come off when I removed the UPC
sticker.

What I ended up with was a hollow rappelling ring used by climbers, it was cheap and available at any local outdoor sports store. I got mine at REI. It polished up nicely and unless someone climbs a ladder to inspect it, the seam is not noticeable (its a hollow tube shaped into a ring). Hope this helps. Doug

From: "Brent" <bmh1944@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Chime suspension and Attenuation

From: Ballou Family <ballou.family@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Chime suspension and Attenuation

From: "Charles" <the_righter@excite.com>
Subject: No more music wire...

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Updated 3-24-05