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Scribbly Gum FAQ |
| From: jj® | 10/07/2001 8:52:59 |
| Subject: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7773 |
| I am trying to find a common (or garden?) language definition of weeds/pests to use with the kids when I start at work again in two weeks ... I have "something growing where it isn't wanted", to start with but I know that will just sound merely selfish to the kids. It's where we will start though. I also have "something with an unfair advantage" .... which suggested "a bully" or sopmething "greedy". I did a trial run with a centre last term and used the notion of "bullies" (with The Lorax). I'm now thinking of trying "Beauty and the Beast" for the next layer or meaning ... ie beauty and beastliness" is in eye of the beholder. Any more ideas? The brooder the connections in the adults' heads, the better I think, but it's often the little details and even "silly" ideas that pop up unexpectedly, that prompt deeper ideas. thanks. Judith | |
| From: jj® | 10/07/2001 8:54:27 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7774 |
| brooder ...brooding .... BROADER I meant. Why can I never see the mistakes when I re-read the thing BEFORE I post it. :-(( | |
| From: sarahs mum® | 10/07/2001 8:57:46 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7775 |
| hi jj many of our weeds are herbs and vice versa. lots of weeds are useful plants. | |
| From: jj® | 10/07/2001 9:11:14 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7776 |
| ah yes, there's another word to explore. I'd forgotten about herbs. I did make Nettle Soup one year, which all enjoyed till they knew its name. I know that when we go back to the bushfire site it's the bulbs (daffodils/ muscari/ watsonias) that the kids will love and don't want to make them feel bad about that ... if I mess that up they will just become PC about it ... ie say the right thing to please others ... once that happens I can't tell what they understand to be the issues. it's not easy and I do want them to know that it's complicated | |
| From: Dave | 10/07/2001 10:35:13 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7777 |
| How about something that is out of control? If you are a teacher with a class of 30 students than all is well. But if a fellow teacher is sick and you have to teach 60 kids then they get out of control and become pests that need eradicating with enourmous doses of highly toxic chemicals.... Ooops, got a bit carried away:-) Just a thought, should you determine a difference between pests and weeds? To me a weed is a plant that is found where it isn't wanted. A completely personal view, eg native grasses in a wheat field or the bulbs that you mentioned. They appear after fire so there is no major detriment to the function of the ecosystem once mature. But a pest is something that is out of control and found where it shouldn't be. It is detrimental to the function of the mature ecosystem. Note I'm using ecosystem in its broadest sense and not its classical definition. This can include improved pastures and thus parthineum is a pest but native grass may be a weed (not that I'm convinced of the cost/benefit of improved pastures but that's a different topic) And as I just made that definition up myself then it would be advisable to ignore it. | |
| From: jj® | 10/07/2001 10:59:07 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7779 |
| Dave >>>"... then they get out of control and become pests ..." yesyesyes! Dave >>> "Ooops, got a bit carried away:-)" LOL!!! Why do you think I needed 6 months "off"?!! I volunteered before they came with the the white jacket! AND you do know the nick-name for Ritalin don't you? "Rid'o'them"! And the other ideas make sense too ... Taaa jj | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 10/07/2001 11:25:35 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7780 |
| Welcome back jj....Lady of Lucid Intelligence. "Why can't you see the typos when you read back" ? Because your mind is running on the meaning of what you say, rather than the mechanics. Price of having a mind that faster than your fingers! I know...I'm the slowest ty-pissed in the world!] Weeds. Wayyyy difficult to explain to little, unsophisticated minds aren't they? I'm always confronted with the image of us as weeds as well...which of course we are. : ( I prefer to describe them in terms of the habitat. You know, all these weeds are poisonous/barren/give the wildlife nothing to eat/ type scenario. Kids relate easily to starving animals. T.m. | |
| From: jj® | 10/07/2001 11:30:28 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7781 |
| >"Lady of Lucid Intelligence." Hells Bells! What weeds are you ON? (sorry , I had to do that ... I just love it ... there's nowhere else i could get my name and lucid in the same sentence, much less intelligence (well, without all possible disqualifiers)Thankyou Tm, You are a treasure. jj | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 10/07/2001 11:37:46 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7783 |
| >>You are a treasure.<< *lol* I've got it....we could have Scribbly Gum Treasures, instead of Avatars and Notable mentions!! I nominate the whole dang lot of us. : )) | |
| From: jj® | 10/07/2001 11:54:20 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7784 |
| "I nominate the whole dang lot of us." OK ... Nominated by tabbysmum; seconded by JJ Votes for? (does that make us a a virtual treasure trove?) JJ | |
| From: tabbysmum | 10/07/2001 12:02:21 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7785 |
| >>does that make us a a virtual treasure trove?) JJ<< I virtually reckon so. Better than being Buried Treasure... :0) Or having a sunken chest hehehehe. {sorry feeling a bit light headed with relief after having a little look at SSSF. YIKES} | |
| From: G-wiz | 10/07/2001 13:19:42 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7796 |
| mental picture of TM saying - "Just look at the the litte treasures" and throwing Gladioli around. hehehehe Glad I can come over here and be a bit silly sometimes. It get's really stuffy in those other two. | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 10/07/2001 13:21:29 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7798 |
| Sheesh wiz-kid, you're not wrong. I love silly! [and I put you in SSSF quotes agin hehehehe.] | |
| From: JJ | 10/07/2001 14:43:43 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7804 |
| Re the businees of us being the greatest pests on the planet earth ... this is from one of the Science List emails this morning ... "C... L... (see below) mentions a story by Isaac Asimov in which he states that the mass of humanity will outweigh the planet by the 24th century. I cannot recall the exact figures now, but if a single aphid was able to breed unfettered, it's offspring would outweigh the planet within 5 years. Humans may be 'the most pernicious race of odious little vermin' (Swift) to ever plague the planet, but our numbers will be contolled - in smaller resource depleted environments (e.g: New Zealand), canibalism was an efficient way to both control population growth and to gain sustenance. 'Solyent Green' was an interesting SF story ...." (details of the story cut so as not to spoil the ending just in case you can find it) I remember Soylent Green ... does anyone else? The Matrix was similar (in an "out of left field" sort of way) jj | |
| From: bella | 11/07/2001 15:46:46 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7895 |
| solyent green is people ! a weed is a personal definition, maybe a pest is an over successful species, successful to the detriment of other species and ecosystems (?) | |
| From: PaulS® | 11/07/2001 20:28:42 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7907 |
| My definition of a weed is something growing where its not wanted. If my lawn sets seed and spreads into my vege garden its weeds, If my carrots set seed and they blow over the lawn and grow they are weeds. | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 11/07/2001 20:35:06 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7909 |
| But then you see Paul S there are environmental weeds, which have an absoluteness of weediness about them. ie whether you think they are weeds or not...they are still weeds, do you see. Even if you don't know they are weedy and you think they are really pretty and brighten up the bush a lot....they are still weeds. So it needs to be more than the subjective phrase" a plant in the wrong place". | |
| From: beclf® | 11/07/2001 20:43:19 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7911 |
| **whether you think they are weeds or not...they are still weeds** yes I see; like the poeple who call Patterson's Curse a "lovely purple wildflower". Lovely it ain't | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 11/07/2001 20:45:51 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7913 |
| >>yes I see; like the poeple who call Patterson's Curse a "lovely purple wildflower". Lovely it ain't<< Thats it bec...I knew from the second I first set type on you that you were a clever one. We are up against the "brighten up the bush" brigade. | |
| From: Purple | 11/07/2001 20:49:59 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7914 |
| I like dandelions :) | |
| From: jj® | 11/07/2001 20:51:57 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7916 |
| Hi y'all; this public back'n'forthing on the topic ... it is helping me ... I am thinking I could use it as a sort of drama presentation for the little kids ... with the characters working the idea out ... and maybe even using the "Woody Weed" character as part of it ... must ask one of the CRC's. now for my query / quandary .., Is Patterson's Curse (what I grew up knowing as Salvation Jane)a beautiful wildflower somewhere else? I don't know for sure, but I imagine it is (or was)? I am becoming convinced that time and place are crucial elements to the definition. jj | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 11/07/2001 20:52:23 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7917 |
| Shhhhhhhhhh. I'm trying to be serious and avatarial. But if I come to visit, you don't have to clean the house. T.m.* feeling magnanimous* | |
| From: Purple® | 11/07/2001 20:56:03 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7918 |
| me TM? | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 11/07/2001 20:56:14 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7919 |
| jj, of the lucid intelligence, it is native to the mediterranean, and a very highly prized ornamental in many less blessed climes of the world. And AFAIK SA is where it is called Sally Jane. Its a curse everywhere else! [in OZ] | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 11/07/2001 21:01:44 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7922 |
| >>me TM?<< of course you, Housewife-not-boring-at-all Who else wouldn't tidy up for Avatars. :)))))) | |
| From: Purple® | 11/07/2001 21:02:27 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7923 |
| LMAO! I forgot about that :) I'm am probably the worst housewife ever :) | |
| From: Davidavid | 11/07/2001 21:02:58 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7924 |
| You all do know the story of Patterson's curse / Salvation Jane? You must know it... | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 11/07/2001 21:03:48 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7925 |
| Please tell us again..... | |
| From: Davidavid | 11/07/2001 21:04:39 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7926 |
| And what about the pest animals? Something about large numbers of them 'Plague Proportions' would apply to both plants and animals? | |
| From: Boris® | 11/07/2001 21:05:51 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7927 |
Guess. It was introduced into SA as a cattle fodder plant? Hence its name of Sal Jane there? | |
| From: Davidavid | 11/07/2001 22:34:35 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7931 |
| There isn't much of a story... It was originally a garden plant, then grew to plague proportions, was called Paterson's curse, there was a drought, it could survive it, providing fodder for farm animals (Salvation Jane). Maybe someone else would want to fill in the details? Davidavid | |
| From: pigman® | 11/07/2001 22:46:59 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7933 |
| Just backing up Davidavid, slavation jane/paterson's curse is normally the last plant to brown off over summer, so remains aas edible green feed for a while. Go to Narrandera in spring and you will see paddocks of purple paterson's curse interspersed with the golden yellow of canola and wheat | |
| From: boxhead® | 11/07/2001 23:49:48 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7939 |
| Hi jj, I am trying to find a common (or garden?) language definition of weeds/pests The definition of a weed that I have always liked is 'a plant out of place'. A plant can be useful in your garden but as soon as it grows outside your fence it is 'out of place' and becomes a weed. You can also apply it within your garden, grasses are good in your lawn, but when they grow in your veggie patch they are 'out of place'. It is useful to apply this to animals as well. A cat becomes a pest once it is out of place (ie. escapes and goes feral). But then I have a self-deprecating name so feel free to ignore me ;) | |
| From: jj® | 12/07/2001 8:17:06 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7943 |
| hmmmm , a fresh new day and I see that the sheepman says "... I have a self-deprecating name so feel free to ignore me ;)". WELL! Which part of your name is self-deprecating ... and even if it is, I know we are to feel free to ignore anything, but things here always turn out to be relevant input, even If I dont get it at first ... especially when there's a wink to go with it. Have a good day everyone. :-)) | |
| From: beclf® | 12/07/2001 11:45:13 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7957 |
| The patterson's curse story as I know it is that it was brought to oz to feed the sheep during times of drought, hence the name salvation jane. But then it kind of took over the whole country. Not only does it out compete everything in the paddock, but it is the last thing the stock want to eat, and I think sheep are the only stock which will eat it at all. Also it was found recently (OK maybe a few years ago) that eating large quantities of it can cause nerve disorders in horses and cattle, similar to stringhalt caused by capeweed. (someone help me with details I'm not really sure about this) | |
| From: boxhead® | 12/07/2001 12:59:33 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7960 |
| Hi beclf, Paterson's curse contains an accumulative poison which may cause chronic liver damage to stock although they will usually avoid it if there is other green feed available. From here thanks to Tamar Valley Weed Strategy PC has a fairly good tap root, which would explain why it is the last to green off in summer. Sheep do nibble at it, but not enough to have an impact on it unless they are desperate. | |
| From: boxhead® | 12/07/2001 13:29:14 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7961 |
| Hi jj, Which part of your name is self-deprecating ... and even if it is, I know we are to feel free to ignore anything, but things here always turn out to be relevant input, even If I dont get it at first ... Don't wrry jj, just venting some frustration from arrogance elsewhere :) | |
| From: jj® | 12/07/2001 14:13:09 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7962 |
| "Don't worry ..." phew ... :-) jj | |
| From: tabbysmum® | 12/07/2001 16:55:32 |
| Subject: re: Pests:plants/animals | post id: 7966 |
| >>From: Robin 19/09/00 12:00:53 Subject: re: Pattersons Course post id: 584 Dear Goiss Just a little known fact my mum told me.... during the Great Depression in the 1930s, people who were having a real struggle used to bring armloads of this plant to Sydney on the steam train, to sell it on the concourse at Central Station. To make it sound more appealing, they renamed it "Riverina Bluebells". Robin<< A little gem I thought. T.m. | |
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