850 R Vs. S/V/70 R

850R Vs V70R[850][95] Gian Paolo -- Friday, 23 March 2001, at 5:38 p.m.

 Hi my only real volvo-friends of the world!!!
 As you understand I have now an 850 R 2.0 (210HP) 130.000KM that I like very very much.
 She is full optional, just RTI less.
 I saw in carpark one V70R 2.0(225HP) 70.000 KM for sale at 1.500 $ more than mine.
 I would like to sell mine and buy the V70R.
 What do you think about? and which is the real difference between this two model?
One important thing that I would like to know is something about the
 turbo lag that in mine is quite strong.

 Thanks a lot.

 Where are you?

 In North America, the V70 R AWD has 261hp and awd and only comes with an auto tranny. The 850 R has with auto tranny 236hp and with manual 250hp,
 and both the 850 R manual and auto have fwd not while the V70 has awd.

 First of all, since the R didn't come out at the same time as the V70, which came out after the 850 R, the V70 R AWD should be significantly more
 expensive. So if the V70 is only a little more in money, it must either have high mileage or other associated issues to decrease its price.

 Another related awd vs fwd issue is the added maintenance costs for the awd. The awd tranny is going to be significantly more expensive to maintain. If
 they previous owner didn't take care of it, the tranny could be a lot of $. So maybe that's why you're getting such a deal.

 As for lag, I cannot speak on personal experience, but I assume that the V70 R should have a pinch more lag due to the higher hp from a nearly identical
 turbo charger, and the added weight and drive train loss to the awd.

 In North America, the 850 R is significantly faster then the V70 R AWD. The V70 has a 0-60 of low 7's while the 850 R has a 0-60 in the high 6's, or about a
 .5 second quicker 0-60 which is quite a difference.

 In fact, a friend of mine has a 2000 V70 R AWD, and I have an 94' 855T. When we had a race, I dusted him.

 In North America, the R as well as the Turbo models have rather stiff suspensions, which a few loved, and many hated. As a result, Volvo seceded and
 began running a higher profile, lower performance tire and a softer suspension. So the V70 should ride a little softer, but also does poorer on the skid pad
 as a result of the suspension changes including tires and the added weight.

 To work on your own turbo lag, there are a number of things you can do. These include an exhaust, chip and air intake. And don't forget proper
 maintenance. You'd be surprised how poorly these cars run when you don't take care of them, and just how much power they produce when you do.

 Just my two cents, but I would keep you 850 R. This "too good to be true" deal sounds like it could be a realy head ache really easily.

 Keep the board informed on your decision.

 Sin,

 you DUSTED your friend with a 2000 V70 R??? I am quite surprised!!! I know that the V70 is heavier and has AWD but 222HP vs. 261? And his car has
 more torque....I am very surprised...is your car stock?

 Every time I drove a 2000 R, it reminded me of a plain ol turbo....that is how strong that car is...hmmm...

 Yannis
 --
 '01 V70 T5 M, Classic Red/Graph L, Sunroof, Rear Spoiler, Cold Weather, 4CD Surr.Sound, 17" "Tethys" Alloys...950 miles averaging 25.8 mpg mixd
 driving

 220 where u going buddy? try 250, (here in canada we got the 5-speed!)
 --
 Daniel Pozzobon
 

 Daniel Pozzobon wrote:

 > 220 where u going buddy? try 250, (here in canada we got the
 > 5-speed!)

 Yeah, yeah, rub it in, Daniel. :^) Not only does my 854 R have 10 fewer ponies, but I don't even get the fun of shifting it myself! :^\

 That's ok though, I still love it. I can't get over the rush of power it has from 50mph to.... wherever you run out of nerve. Of course, I have only had it for a
 week. Maybe I'll get used to it eventually.

 -Chris Boultinghouse
 -Austin, TX
 --
 '97 854 R, Unmodified. For now. :^)

 Besides LOTS of love and care, AMSOIL in the engine and tranny, my car was stock. His car was stock. We both did no torque convertor loading. I was
 expecting my car to lose as well.

 Off the line, it was neck and neck, but by the end of a measured 1/4, his front bumper was 3/4 of a car length behind my rear bumper. I know because I saw
 hum in my side view, as in he was behind my blind spot.

 Don't ask me why. I have no idea. I don't know why, but my 855T is particularly fast. One of my good friends has a 92' Mustang 5.0. Almost every run we do
 is identical. His car puts out 240hp and is rwd. He has beat me at his best by my front bumper to the back of his rear wheel. My best win was with his front
 bumper at the back of the front doors. For this 5.0, I do the torque loading launch.

 And after doing some looking up of 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times in car mags and on the net, the range for 0-60 in the 855T is with manual 6.9-7.5, auto
 from 7.1-7.7, while the V70 R AWD is from auto only 7.3-8.0.

 The V70 R AWD isn't just a little heavier, it is a LOT heavier. And let's not forget the EXTREME loss of power to the drive train on the V70 R AWD.

 Then there was my tire advantage, the Michelin Pilot HX's and his Pilot XGT.

 I wish there was some way I could provide concrete proof, but I really can't. I want to borrow my sister's, boyfriend's digital camera that takes both stills and
 full audio/video, and have my car filmed while beating some of these cars. The only reason I haven't already is because I don't want to deal with license
 plates showing up.

 You shouldn't be in the least bit surprised--the 2000 V70s aren't just heavier, they're a LOT heavier than the ol' pre-S&V, 850s. Just them plain ol' physics
 again...

 NOT ONCE DID I MAKE FUN OF ANY VOLVO 850 OR V70 IN THAT MATTER, I ALSO DID NOT MEAN TO MAKE YOU UPSET IF I DID !!SORRY!!.. BUT  YOUR SAYING THAT I'LL RUN OUT OF "NERVE" BUDDY MY CAR READS 260 KmH (THE PROPER LAYOUT) AND LET ME TELL YOU I'LL RUN UP TO  THAT SPEED OK!!! SO DON'T TELL ME THAT I'LL WIMP OUT IF THATS WHAT YOUR TRYING TO APPLY. ONCE AGAIN I'M SORRY IF I MAY HAVE  ANGERRRRRED YOU.

 REGARDS;
 --
 Daniel Pozzobon

 Hey, Daniel! You didn't anger me, (that's why I used the "smilie") and I wasn't trying to imply that you'd wimp out. I'M the one that wimps out; I have yet to get
 my 854 R over 95 mph (that would be 152.8 KmH to you).

 Enjoy that 5-speed!

 -Chris "missing a pedal" Boultinghouse
 --
 '97 854 R, Unmodified. For now. :^)

 NO PROB. CHRIS BY THE WAY IT'S A THRILLLL PASSING 100 MPH HAVE A GOOD ONE, BY THE WAY FEEL FREE TO E-MAIL ME ANY TIME AND WILL CHAT VOLVO?

 REGARDS;
 VOLVOSPEED@HOTMAIL.COM
 AOL SCREEN NAME: VOLVOSPEED
 --
 Daniel Pozzobon

                                                        www.ipdusa.com

 I definitely believe you, no need to prove anything...is your car manual/ That would also make a huge diference over an automatic.

 Yannis
 --
 '01 V70 T5 M, Classic Red/Graph L, Sunroof, Rear Spoiler, Cold Weather, 4CD Surr.Sound, 17" "Tethys" Alloys...950 miles averaging 25.8 mpg mixd
 driving

 Nope, I have an auto.

 All times were tested at St. Thomas Dragway.

 My best 0-60 ever timed was a 6.96.
 My slowest 0-60 ever timed was a 7.74.
 My average 0-60 is about 7.25.

 My best 1/4 ever timed was a 15.13
 My slowest 1/4 ever timed was 15.66
 My average 1/4 is around 15.49.

 When I first started getting timed, my reaction time was horrible, and I couldn't get the car to launch properly. I either spun the tires excessively, or had a
 little wheel hopping so I let off the gas to prevent major repairs.

 After speaking to some people that drag race seriously, they told me that to get the best times, you have to have about 10% wheel slippage. Basically, at all
 times, if possible (depends on whether you have that much power) you want the car to be travelling 10% slower then the wheels are rotating. Acceleration is
 maximised at this amount of slippage.

 I'm not sure if my 855T (auto) bone stock produces enough power to do this. However, I can do this throughout 1st gear. When the car shifts into 2nd, the
 wheels REALLY slip. When I race people on the street, you can actually here the wheel's chirp and the tires slip a little when the car shifts into 2nd.

 Like I said, I will be doing a lot to my car VERY soon (air intake already ordered, will be picking out the muffler and tip today, and if all things work out (I'm
 expecting a BIG cheque) I'll put the exhaust on in less then a week) and I am determined to trek to St. Thomas to get some new numbers. If I can get some
 cheap dyno time, I may even get that done as well. The chip will have to wait for a break between lectures and finals if I'm not too busy studying or may have
 to wait till after exams if I'm too busy. Worst case scenario, first or second week of May.

 Man does this car fly when you take care of it. But I'm due for maintenance including spark plugs, spark plug wires, distrib. and cap, engine oil/filter, brake
 rotors and pads all round. I'm doing the sparks the wires, the dis and cap myself probably Thursday when it warms up to 8 degrees Celcius (today is -2). I
 already have a set of front rotors and pads, so I may put them on myself as well. But since I have to do both fr and rear, I may just have it done when I send
 my car in for regular maintenance.

 Since the ignition is wearing, lately, the performance hasn't been up to my standards. It still pulls, but the engine just doesn't sound like it's supposed to.
 The signature burble is more pronounced and the engine doesn't want to climb rpm's as readily lately. I wouldn't be surprised if my power output was down
 10hp and 10 ft/lbs just from this.

 BTW, have you or anyone else tried indexing the sparks? Does the car benefit from it? How did you do it?

 I know my baby is pushing when I hear the dash shift off the line. Boy do I need a strut tower brace. This body is way too flexible for serious performance.
 But not much one can do to stiffen such a large vehicle without adding too much weight or cost for exotic materials.

 Gian
 You must be posting from Europe. Italy, perhaps?
 Seems you have what’s known in some markets as the T4 engine designation (different from S/V40T4 model desig). A friend in Singapore, South-east Asia,
 has the same engine type – his car’s a S70T5 2.0 with standard 225hp. He has just chipped it thru a Swedish tuner and now has sumthing like 260hp,
 380Nm torque. (“Gavin, care to confirm?”)

 Between your 850R (2.0, 210hp) and that V70R (2.0. 225hp) which you are considering, my personal view is keep your car, and use the money to buy a
 chipped or reprogrammed ECU from Sweden. SAM, BSR, TME, SCT are some of the better known names. After all, once chipped (boost increased to
 1.0bar), you would have more power than a stock 2.3 liter “850R” with 250hp (240hp in US).

 Note also, the standard 2.0 engined “T4” like yours has heavier turbo lag than our 2.3 liter T5s, probably more due to engine design than anything else. I’m
 told by my friend with the S70T5A (2.0) after he chipped it, the turbo kicks in earlier at 2500rpm instead of 3000rpm previously. The existing turbo lag is
 more or less maintained.

 Err… what’s that missing optional item “RTI” in your post?

 Jeff
 95 855T5A (2.3), SAM chip, IPD swaybars, full Supersprint exos (no cat), Bilsteins