Middle Kingdom - Internal Letter of Acceptances & Returns – December 2002 

This is the December 2002 Middle Kingdom Letter of Acceptances and Returns for Escutcheon and Keythong’s October Letters. Unless otherwise noted, all clients will accept changes. {Comments in braces {} were removed from the Letter of Intent sent to Laurel and the College of Arms. Names, devices, or badges in braces have been returned or pended; general comments or replies to commentary are also placed in braces. Thanks to Aryanhwy merch Catmael, Knut, Thorvald Redhair, Ćlfreda ćt Ćthelwealda, Mikhail of Lubelska, John ap Wynne, Richenda de Jardin, Giovanna d’Ests, Guillermo d’Este, Emma Foster, Thorgrim Bjornsson, Percival ap Gwylim Trefanwy, Gabriel Ximenez de Malaga, Kr˙st˙na Mihal, Konrad Mailander, Juliane de St. Thomas, Yasamin al-Hadiyya, Pat, and Jaelle of Armida for their commentary this month.}

{I had several problems with the punctuality of letters of comment this month. I appreciate the effort of all of our commentators, but when your LoCs do not arrive on time, I cannot utilize your commentary as much as I would wish to. You can assist me by completing your commentary in a timely fashion. Effective with my March ILoAR, I will be changing the due date for comments to the 25^th of the previous month (Jan ILoI commentary will be due on 2/25/03). I can make exceptions to the deadline, but you must contact me prior to the 25^th. Commentary received after the deadline will likely be ignored.} 

 

{*) Alfred Gatebreaker. New Name and Device. Per fess argent and azure, a hammer inverted to chief gules, a two towered gate Or.

This item is being pended so that my deputy Incunabula can contact the client. The issue is the byname, which we were unable to document. The cited pages of Jonsjo do not support the client’s byname nor even its construction. Jonsjo notes (on page 33) that the Noun+Verb construction is extraordinarily rare. Rather, it appears that Verb+Noun would be a much more probable form. Jonsjo, in fact, has a similar name (Breakwall) and another with a similar meaning (Gatebane). We could see the client registering either of those or could form an argument in favor of Breakgate. When we know the client’s wishes, we will send the name up.

The device is being pended with the name. The Thor’s hammer really isn’t, so we will reblazon it simply as a hammer inverted.} 

Name Commentary

Ary: Simply citing sources and page numbers is not documentation; dates and spellings must also be listed.  Withycombe cites Alfred the Great 849-901, but this is most likely normalized, as all other spellings from that period and slightly after are Latin.  Given the Latin forms from 1086-1303, <Alfred> is probably registerable.  I do not have a copy of Jonsjo, so I can't look up <Gatebreaker>.  It is not in Reaney & Wilson. 

Richenda: Alfred is the header form in Withycombe. We were unable to find any dates for this spelling but were able to find Alfraid the Great (849-901), Alueredus (1086), and Alfridus (1286). We were able to find Alfred in the submitter’s spelling in Talan Gwynek’s “Given Names from Early 13^th Century England” (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/eng13/eng13m.html). We could not find any documentation (outside of Jonsjo, which we do not have) for Gatebreaker, even as a plausible construction. 

Gabriel: As far as we can tell, the name is fine. 

Device Commentary

Ary: Blazon-fu: "Per fess argent and azure, a Thor's hammer inverted gules and a two towered gate Or."  There is no need to specify that the hammer is in chief, since two charges in pale is the default for a field divided per fess, and each charge will fall where it does based on their tincutres. 

Thorvald: If this is a Thor’s hammer, it is in its default position.  According to the PicDic, the Thor’s hammer has a particular style, which is not represented by this miniature.  This just a hammer inverted. 

Knut: Per fess argent and azure, a Thor’s hammer inverted to chief gules, a two towered gate Or.

Per fess argent and azure, in pale a Thor’s hammer inverted gules and a two towered gate Or

[A portcullis between and conjoined to two towers] The primary charge is blazoned [as noted] for the sake of the cant [with Gate's Edge], but is indistinguishable from a castle (Canton of Gate's Edge, September, 1992, pg. 7)

Precedents - Bruce, under Castle

It would be better if the per fess wasn't slightly enhanced.

Clear 

Richenda: I recommend reblazoning the Thor’s hammer as a hammer as it does not have anything that distinguishes it from a standard hammer. The gate should be reblazoned as a two-towered castle.

This should have been sent out as a line drawing. When we tried to color it in, the blue of the bottom of the field was unable to be seen against the black ink. 

Gabriel: The device is clear of conflicts. 

Konrad: Suggest blazon - Per fess argent and azure, a Thors hammer gules, a two towered gate Or. A Thors hammer by default is handle to the chief. The charge as depicted it is not the heraldic charge a Thors hammer but just a hammer. So this is probably better: Per fess argent and azure, hammer inverted gules, a two towered gate Or. 

 

1) Anna Lyse Warwick. New Name.

Anna is dated to the 14^th century in Scott, “Medieval German Given Names from Silesia” (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/bahlow_v.htm). Lyse is found in Scott, “15^th Century German Women’s Name” (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/names/germ15f.html). Warwick is found in Reaney and Wilson (477) as a header spelling with “de Warewic” dated to 1196 and “de Waruuic” to 1086. By the 14^th or 15^th century, the spelling could have modernized to the submitted variant. The client has requested an authentic 14^th century name. 

Name Commentary

Ary: From the precedents of Da'ud II: "There is ample evidence of period German use of double given names. (Anne Liese Wolkenhaar, 5/96 p. 5)."  German/English combinations were ruled a weirdness on the 11/01 LoAR.  The client should be aware that <Anna Lyse von Marburg> would be registerable if that's what she indeed wished (perhaps this can be pended so Rouge Scarpe can find out), but that it's awfully close to <Annalies Maria von Marburg>, registered 09/01 via Caid.  The spelling <Annalies>, if this is what she is going for, is dated to 1634 in Seibicke.  The precedents of Francois state: "Colm Dubh found a citation of Annalies in 1634 (Wilfred Seibicke, *Historisches Deutsches Vornamenbuch*), which is in our "gray area" of documentation. Therefore we will allow the compound given name. We will, however, only allow it in the listed spelling (barring documentation that another spelling is a valid period variant). [Annalies Grossmund, 10/99, A-Calontir]." 

Richenda: The documentation for Anna is as stated. We were unable to find Lyse in that documentation as suggested, but were able to find it in Talan Gwynek’s “15^th Century German Women’s Names” article (http://www.s-gabriel.org/docs/german15f.html). We were able to find additional documentation of Warwick in Reaney and Wilson, s.n. Warwick, with Richard de Warewic (1196) and Churchill Waruuic (1086). 

Gabriel: Operating under the assumption that she wanted <Warwick> as a surname, we documented <Warwick> in “A Dictionary of English Surnames”, Reaney & Wilson, Third Edition, page 477.  That spelling was not dated however.  The spelling found was <de Warewic> dated to 1196, and <de Waruuic> dated to 1086.

However, we have very rarely seen a first name and middle name combination such as <Anna Lyse>.  For this reason, we suggest dropping the <Lyse> and registering <Anna Warwick>.  We can document <Anna> dated to 1383 in “Medieval German Given Names from Silesia” by Talen Gwynek. http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/bahlow/.  We can also document <Anna> to Withycombe, Third Edition, page 25.

<Lyse> was undated and found in 15th-Century German Women's Names by Talan Gwynek. http://www.s-gabriel.org/docs/german15f.html 

Konrad: No documentation of Warwick provided whilst documentation for the surname [von Marburg] was, but must go by the name on the form. Client cares most about sound and wants a 14th century name.

Too bad, von Marburg would make for a better name than the mixed German/English with Warwick. 

 

{*) Beathag Corwyna the Corsair. New Name and Device. Per chevron argent and sable, two daggers in chevron and a lymphad under full sail counterchanged.

The name must be returned for a series of problems. First of all, the name combines Scots, English, and French elements (by itself, counted as two “weirdnesses” and cause for return). Beathag (at best) is a modern phonetic rendering of the given name Beak, but the article, “Scottish Gaelic Given Names” (which superseded the documentation provided by the client) casts some doubt on this. Corwyna cannot be documented. It might be argued to be a feminization of Corwen, but we do not allow such feminizations without proof that they actually existed in their own right. We would suggest further research on the given name and a simplification of the name to only two elements (something like Beak Corsayres or Beak le Corser, if we can get a more solid foundation for the given name).

The device is fine but must be returned with the name.} 

Name Commentary

Ary: Note that the site cited for the given name <Beathag> is no longer available, as it has been superceded by "Scottish Gaelic Given Names" (6Nov01 update) (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/).  The only evidence for <Beathag> is a woman recorded in Scots as <Beak> in 1571.  The article says this about this record: "The particular spelling <Beak> may (or may not) be because it was an attempt to phonetically render a Gaelic form of the name; then again, it may be that it is a weird form of <Bege>/<Beigis>, a Scots language diminutive of Margaret (similar to the English diminutive <Peg> and <Peggy>)."  Given the speculative nature of the evidence, <Beak> might be a better choice to go with than <Beathag>.  I highly doubt that <Corwyna> is registerable.  There is no evidence for either the masculine or the feminine form in period, and while the masculine form <Corwin> has been ruled SCA-aceptable (cf "Corwin was ruled SCA-compatible in the cover letter for the December 1985 LoAR. [Corwin of Saxony, 11/01, A-Ansteorra]" from the precedents of Francois), the feminine form has never been.  Reaney & Wilson has no surname from <Corsair>; the most similar in sound is <le Corser> 1227 s.n. Corser.  <Beak le Corser> would be a registerable Scots/English name with just one weirdness for the combination of languages, but it's fairly far removed from her original submission and does not retain the meaning. 

John: Beathag: see Conway (61); Zaczek (15); Norman (114, 119,128) lists this as one of the most common female names in Scotland between 843-1542.

Corwyna: I don’t find this name anywhere, not even in my myriad welsh books; I wonder where the client came up with it? 

Richenda: We recommend returning this name for the element Corwyna. The issue of accepting feminized versions of men’s names determined to be SCA-compatible is currently in the final decision-making process. Pelican has tentatively decided to end the registration of such names in April 2003. Our argument to you is that this name contains two weirdnesses: an SCA-compatible name, and the feminization of a masculine name with no commonly used feminine form. 

Gabriel: Arval’s page has been removed.  It has been superceded by http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/women.shtml “Scottish Given Names for Women”, Sharon L. Krossa.  However, <Beathag> is listed as a “speculative pre-1600 Scottish Gaelic spelling.” 

<Corwyna> could not be documented, however, <Corwen> can be documented as an English surname, dated to 1483, in Reaney & Wilson, Third Edition, page 109.  <Corsair> was documented as < Corsales> dated to 1549, <Coursayres> dated to 1588, and <Corsaries> dated to 1599 from the OED, online edition.

While all the parts can be documented, mostly, the construction cannot be.  The combination of Gaelic and English is a weirdness. (Precedences of Elsbeth: Cassandra Annabelle O Shannahan, 04/00, A-Atenveldt).  The combination of <Beathag>, <Corwen>, and <the Corsair> is at least one more weirdness.  One weirdness is all Laurel allows.  We recommend <Beathag Corwen> or <Beathag the Corsair>, which would fix the one weirdness rule.  However, given the speculation on the spelling of the first name, we recommend returning for further work and documentation. 

Device Commentary

Thorvald: The lymphad is missing its identifying oars.  This might be similar to the beard on a unicorn. 

Knut: Per chevron argent and sable, two daggers in chevron and a lymphad under full sail counterchanged.

The daggers should be drawn bolder.  They are pushing thin-line heraldry.

The per chevron line is abased.

Clear 

Richenda: We regret recommending the return of the name as we really like the armory. It appears to be free of conflict. 

 

{*) Border Keep, Canton of. New Group Name.

The name must be returned for conflict with Border Vale Keep, Shire of (reg’d 4/85). The Rules for Submission v.2.c.:  Conflict of Names with Different Numbers of Elements, states, “Two non-personal names with different numbers of descriptive elements conflict if the only difference in the descriptive parts is the addition of one or more modifiers to a single, already modified root element.” The only difference between the proposed and the registered name is the addition of a modifier, so there is a conflict.} 

Name Commentary

Ary: The precedent concerning the SCA-acceptability of <Keep> is as follows: "*Keep* has long been used as part of SCA branch names. The most recent registration is *Crossrode Keep, Shire of* (registered November 1999 via Ansteorra). This element is effectively regarded as SCA compatible as an element in an English place name. Given the forms in which it has been registered, spellings of the element *Keep* are registerable both as a separate element (such as *Crossrode Keep*), and as the final element in a compound place name (such as *Northkeep*). Registerable spellings include *Keep* and any alternate spellings which may be  documented to period (including those listed above)."  I'm not sure about <Border Keep> as a reasonable placename for "keep on the border," but since the allow the meaning "keep of the man named Border," this could reasonably be changed to <Borderskeep>, which, while not great, is probably registerable. 

Richenda: We reviewed the documentation and it is as stated in the LoI. 

Gabriel: Conflicts with: Border Vale Keep, Shire of (April of 1985 (via Meridies)). Rules for Submission V.2.c.:  Conflict of Names with Different Numbers of Elements  - Two non-personal names with different numbers of descriptive elements conflict if the only difference in the descriptive parts is the addition of one or more modifiers to a single, already modified root element. 

 

{*) Brandrmeir Grimeau de Mortaigne. New Name and Device. Per pale azure and sable, three fleurs-de-lis in pall bases to center argent

The name is being returned for lack of documentation and our own inability to provide satisfactory documentation to support the name. The given name appears to be Norse, while the rest of the name appears to be French (although we could not find Grimeau at all). If this is the client’s intent, he should be aware of the potential temporal incompatibility issue as Norse names do not occur with French names (as the Norse, in fact, became Normans, rather than mixing the two linguistic traditions).

The device is fine, but must be returned with the name.} 

Name Commentary

Ary: <Brandrmeir> looks like a compound Norse given name, using the element <Brandr>.  <Brandr> is found 20 times in the Landnamabok, according to "Viking Names found in the Landnámabók" (http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~sfriedemann/names/landnamabok.htm), making it quite popular.  The element <-meir> is not found in any name. <Grimeau> looks French; the closest I can find are the given names <Grimon> and <Grymond>, in "Names Found in Commercial Documents from Bordeaux, 1470-1520" (http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~sfriedemann/names/bordeaux.htm), the surnames <Grimel> and <Grimoneau>, in the same source, and the surname <Degrimaupont> or <Degrimonpon> in "French Names from 1601" (http://www.sit.wisc.edu/~sfriedemann/names/french1601.htm).  <de Moretaign'> and <de Mortaine> are recorded in 1187 and 1219 respectively, according to Reaney & Wilson s.n. Morten.  The first is most likely a scribal form of <de Moretaigne>.  <Grimon de Moretaigne> would be a reasonable French name, but it's a far stretch from where he started. 

Richenda: We recommend returning this name for several reasons. 1. We have been unable to find any documentation of the given name element Brandrmeir in any language. We even did a Google search and only find this name as a form of the above name. 2. We have been unable to find documentation for Grimeau. Our closest documentation was in Dauzat and Rostaing s.n. Grimaucourt-en-Woevre. There we found Girmaud de Grimaldo (980). We did not exhaustively search the Saint Grabriel Library or Arval’s site, however; therefore there is a possibility that we missed some documentation. We were able to find an undated citation for Mortaigne in Morlet, s.n. Mortagne, as a territory in Gaul. 

Gabriel: As was said by a member of this group “don’t stick multiple cultures into a blender and pull out a name”.  The best we can come up with is that the client wants a Norse-French name.  However, we are unable to document this.  This needs to be returned for ANY documentation. 

Device Commentary

Ary: - This arrangement of flerus-de-lys has been registered before, and fairly recently, in the blazon provided by Escutcheon. 

Knut: Per pale azure and sable, three fleurs-de-lis in pall bases to center argent

In the line line drawing, the appear to be conjoined, however the color drawing shows them separated.

Clear 

Richenda: This appears to be free of conflict. 

Gabriel: Nice arms, and clear of conflicts. 

 

2) Domnall Ó hOdhráin. New Name.

Domnall is found in Ó Corráin & Maguire (75) and described as “the ninth most popular name in Early Ireland.” The byname is found in MacLysaght (161, under “Horan”). The entry says, “the name of this north Connacht sept is also widely used for Haren and to some extent for Hourihan.” No dates are provided, but MacLysaght’s Gaelic forms are generally period, so this is probably registerable.  

Name Commentary

Ary: The URL for the website documenting the given name is actually "Index of Names in Irish Annals" (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/AnnalsIndex/), not the URL cited on the LoI.  <Domnall> is an extremely popular Irish masculine name; there are 44 examples of men with this name in the Irish Annals, ranging from 862 to 1592.  The submitted spelling is the pre c1200 form; the spelling appropriate for the 14th century would be <Domhnall>.  The source cited for the surname is not sufficient; however, they do cross-reference the name with <(O) Horan>, which is in MacLysaght; he gives the Gaelic as <Ó hOdhráin>, saying "the name of this north Connacht sept is also widely used for Haren and to some extent for Hourihan."  This doesn't give any dates, but MacLysaght's Gaelic forms are generally period, so this is probably registerable.  

John: Domnall: see Conway (38-39); Zaczek (74); Todd (106); O’Corran/Maguire (75)

O’hOdhrain: closest I can find is O’Corrain/Maguire (148), Todd (144) 

Richenda: The documentation for Domnall is as stated on the LoI. However, the documentation provided for the surname is inadequate. This is a commercial site and does not contain any dates or source listing. We were able to find an undated citation in MacLysaight for O hOdhrain (the submitter’s given spelling) under the name (O) Horan. 

Gabriel: <Domnall> found in O Corrain and Maguire, page 75.  < Ó hOdhráin> is found in MacLysaght, “The Surnames of Ireland”, Fifth Edition, page 161, under “(O) Horan”.  Both names are undated. 

 

3) Elinor Larke le Dauncer. New Device. Argent, two natural leopards combatant guardant azure spotted argent between in chief a mullet gules and in base a sun purpure.

{Name reg’d 4/02} 

Device Commentary

Ary: Unfortunately, by drawing the mullet large to match the sun rather than drawing the sun smaller to match the mullet, this now has three different types of charges (sun, mullet, leopards) in the same charge group, so this must be returned for slot-machine heraldry. 

Knut: Argent, two natural leopards combatant guardant azure spotted argent between in pale a mullet gules and a sun purpure.

This is pushing slot-machine.  The cats need to be drawn larger as primaries while the sun should be a little farther down in the point.

Since we give a CD between a sun and an estoile, this does not fall afoul of the "similar but not identical charges" (often called "the sword and dagger") rule. (Aliena Goodeve, 2/98 p. 6) Precedents - Jaelle, under Style - "Sword & Dagger"

There is a CD between a sun and a mullet of five which means that this barely clears a sword and dagger bounce.

The real problem as far as I can tell with this emblazon is the tinctures that are used in it.  The mullet looks a little tenne and the purpure sun has way too much gules in the color mix.

Clear 

Richenda: We are not sure if she created a separate problem while trying to respond to Rouge Scarpe’s initial reason for return. In this emblazon we feel she is perilously close to slot machine heraldry. If this were a single leopard, the consensus of the commenters was to recommend returning it as such. Given that this is a group primary, it is more difficult to say. Perhaps part of the problem stems from the top-heaviness of the drawing. 

Gabriel: This device should be returned.  Rules of Submission VIII.1: Armorial Simplicity: All armory must be simple in design.

a. Tincture and Charge Limit: Armory must use a limited number of tinctures and types of charges.  “As a rule of thumb, the total of the number of tinctures plus the number of types of charges in a design should not exceed eight. As another guideline, three or more types of charges should not be used in the same group.”  Although this does not violate the first rule of thumb, it does come very close.  It does violate the second guideline, that three types of charges are in the same group.

  b. Armorial Balance: Armory must arrange all elements coherently in a balanced design.  “Period armory usually places the primary elements of the design in a static arrangement, such as a single charge in the center of the field or three identical charges on an escutcheon. More complex designs frequently include a central focal point around which other charges are placed, like a chevron between three charges, but the design remains static and balanced. Designs that are unbalanced, or that create an impression of motion, are not compatible with period style.” 

This is unbalanced, in that there are two completely different charges in chief and in base, with a third charge group in the middle. 

Konrad: What keeps this from being slot machine? 

 

4) Flaithrí Ó Cearnaigh. New Name and Device. Or, three chevronels interlaced sable, overall a fox rampant gules.

Ó Corráin & Maguire (105) note for the given name that “This name was relatively common in the early period but it survived into the early modern period.” They note a king of Connacht from c777 and an archbishop from 1560-1629.  Ó Cearnaigh is found in MacLysaght (171, under Kearney), who says that it is “the name of two septs now called Kearney (or Carney in Connacht), viz. of the Uí Fiachrach> and of the Dál gCais; the latter migrated to Cashel.”

{Knut: There is no conflict with James the Fox because the primary is the chevronels, not the fox.} 

Name Commentary

Ary: Again, simply citing titles and page numbers is not documentation.  OCM s.n. Flaithrí says that "This name was relatively common in the early period but it survived into the early modern period," citing a king of Connacht from c777 and an archbishop from 1560-1629.  <Ó Cearnaigh> is found in MacLysaght s.n. (O) Kearney, which says that <Ó Cearnaigh> is "the name of two septs now called <Kearney> (or <Carny in Connacht), viz. of the <Ui Fiachrach> and of the <Dal gCais>; the latter migrated to Cashel." 

John: Client’s sources are okay for both names. 

Richenda: We were able to find additional documentation fro Flaithri from Mari Elspeth nic Bryan’s article “Dated Full Names Found in Ó Corráin & Maguire's Irish Names” (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/mari/ocm/). In addition we were able to confirm that the documentation for O Cearnaigh 

Device Commentary

Knut: Or, three chevronels interlaced sable, overall a fox rampant gules.

Or, three chevronels braced sable, overall a fox rampant gules.

The chevronels could be a little higher up.  They still don't quite balance between base and chief, although this should be passable.

James the Fox - July of 1971: Or, a fox rampant guardant gules. Single CD for the chevronels.

Return for conflict. 

5) Galen the Mad. Change of Registered Device. Argent, upon a saltire nowy quadrate sable cotised purpure, a hawk’s head erased argent.

{Name reg’d 6/87}

The saltire nowy quadrate is grandfathered to the client with his current device (Azure, on a saltire nowy quadrate argent, cotised Or, a bull's head cabossed sable) [reg’d 11/87], which will be released if this is registered. 

Device Commentary

Knut: Argent, upon a saltire nowy quadrate sable cotised gules, a hawk’s head erased argent.

Is that head marked brown?

Clear. Return for redraw. 

Richenda: We question the use of nowy quadrate with saltire without further documentation of this as a period heraldic motif. However, this motif was registered to the submitter in 1987 and therefore would be covered under the grandfather clause regardless of the decision of its registerability. This was the only registration of the saltire nowy quadrate motif. We recommend sending this to Wreath with this question. 

Ćlfreda: The submittor already has a registered device (reg 11/87) "Azure, on a saltire nowy quadrate argent, cotised Or, a bull's head cabossed sable." 

 

6) Galen the Mad. New Badge. Azure, a saltire nowy quadrate argent cotised Or.

{Name reg’d 6/87}

The saltire nowy quadrate is grandfathered to the client with his current device (Azure, on a saltire nowy quadrate argent, cotised Or, a bull's head cabossed sable) [reg’d 11/87]. 

Badge Commentary

Knut: Azure, a saltire nowy quadrate argent cotised Or.

Clear 

Richenda: We question the use of nowy quadrate with saltire without further documentation of this as a period heraldic motif. While this motif was registered to the submitter in 1987, it was registered with a tertiary. This was the only registration of the saltire nowy quadrate motif. We are not certain if this would qualify under the grandfather clause, if a decision is made to disallow its registerability. We recommend sending it to Wreath with this question. 

 

7) Galen the Mad. New Badge. Argent, a saltire nowy quadrate sable cotised purpure.

{Name reg’d 6/87}

The saltire nowy quadrate is grandfathered to the client with his current device (Azure, on a saltire nowy quadrate argent, cotised Or, a bull's head cabossed sable) [reg’d 11/87]. 

Badge Commentary

Knut: Argent, a saltire nowy quadrate sable cotised gules.

Clear 

Richenda: We question the use of nowy quadrate with saltire without further documentation of this as a period heraldic motif. While this motif was registered to the submitter in 1987, it was registered with a tertiary. This was the only registration of the saltire nowy quadrate motif. We are not certain if this would qualify under the grandfather clause, if a decision is made to disallow its registerability. We recommend sending it to Wreath with this question. 

 

8) Iosobal inghean Uilliam mhic Leoid. New Name.{and Device. Quarterly checky azure and argent and Or, a frog salient vert.}

The client submitted Iosobail, but we were unable to document that spelling and have changed it to Iosobal, which is dated to the 16^th century in Kross, “Scottish Gaelic Given Names: For Women” (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/women.shtml). William is found in Maloney, “13^th & 14^th Century Scottish Names” (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/SymonFreser/scottish14/scottish14_given.html) and the variant Uilliam is attested to be a reasonable spelling variant, although no documentation is provided by the client and none could be found. Leoid is found in “A Simple Guide to Constructing 12^th Century Scottish Gaelic Names” (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/simplescotgaelicnames12.shtml) and is the genitive form of Léod. The client will NOT accept MAJOR changes, cares most about having an authentic 15^th century “Celtic/Gaelic” name.

{The device is being returned for redrawing and a conflict. The conflict is with Gaston de l’Abbey (Checky gules and argent, a frog salient vert) [reg’d 12/90]. There is one difference for the change to the field. Even without the conflict, the device would need to be returned for redrawing. The frog is not clearly depicted as it is missing half of its appendages. Also, as drawn, it is neither salient (leaping) nor sejant (sitting) but rather somewhere in between. As salient incurs a conflict, the client might want to try sejant if she sticks to this motif – but we have not researched the possible conflicts that change might present.} 

Name Commentary

John: Iosobail: see Todd (490)

Uilliam: see O’Corrain/Maguire (175); Conway (59); Todd (160)

MhicLeoid: see Dorward (226-227); Whyte (194-195); Black (538); Grimble (188-189) 

Richenda: Arval Benicoeur’s article, cited in the LoI, has been superceded by Effric neyn Kenyeoch vc Ralte’s “Scottish Gaelic Given Names” article (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/ still in draft). Effric neyn Kenyeoch vc Ralte’s “Scottish Gaelic Given Names” article (http://www.medievalscotland.org/scotnames/gaelicgiven/ last updated 28 August 2002) lists this name as probably from 1501-1600, but does not yet have documentation of this spelling. The spellings she documents are from the Book of the Dean of Lismore:

"Contissa Ergadien Issobell" ('Countess of Argyll Isabel')

"Yssbell ne v'kellan" ('Isabel daughter of MacCalin')

"Isbell ne vek Callein" ('Isabel daughter of MacCalin')

When reviewing the Symon Freser article, we discovered that the LoI had a typo in the article URL. The correct URL is: http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/symonFreser/scottish14/scottish14_given.html The article does provide documentation of some form of William, but not beginning with “Ui.” While we understand that at some times and places “U” and “V” were used interchangeably, we questioned if 14^th Century Scotland might be a little late for this. Not knowing Scottish orthography, we bow to Arval’s greater expertise.

Finally, we were able to find Leod in the above mentioned Effric neyn Kenyeoch vc Ralte article as well. We are not sure if Leoid would have been a genitive form of that name.

Please, when citing an e-mail, provide a comprehensive summary of the e-mail. If the e-mail simple states that X is the correct spelling, please quote the e-mail.  

Device Commentary

Thorvald: We count only two legs.  If this should be returned for redrawing on the frog, please encourage the client to enlarge the size of the checks too. 

Knut: Quarterly checky azure and argent and Or, a frog salient vert.

Quarterly checky azure and argent and Or, a frog sejant forelegs elevated vert.

The rear legs need to be extended for salient. The tiny checky muddles the most identifiable parts of the frog.

Reversing the field tinctures and drawing the checky larger should clear up the identifiability problem.

Note - Gaston de l'Abbaye - December of 1990 (via Atlantia): Checky gules and argent, a frog salient vert.

A properly drawn salient has a conflict. Sejant is clear.

Return for violating RfS VIII.3 

Richenda: Consider a possible conflict with Baston de l’Abbey, Checky gules and argent, a frog salient vert. There is only 1 CD for the change to the field. In addition, we have a few style comments for this armory. 1. The checks on the checky part of the field could be larger and fewer. 2. This frog is neither salient nor sejant but is partway between. A salient from should look as though it were caught leaping. A sejant frog should look as though it were sitting. The upper half of this frog looks as though it were leaping and the bottom half as though it were sitting. Blurring the line between two postures has long been reason for return. 3. When drawing a creature, it is customary for all four limbs to be visible, especially when the posture is salient or rampant. We recommend returning this for the conflict and advising the submitter to modify the drawing. 

Ćlfreda: We are not certain if the primary charge is actually salient.  It might be better described as sejant erect. 

If the primary is salient, we find conflict with Gaston de l'Abbaye (reg 12/90) "Checky gules and argent, a frog salient vert."  There is one CD for changing the field. 

 

9) Northshield, Principality of. New Badge. Per pale sable and argent, a compass rose between two pomegranates slipped and leaved counterchanged.

{Name reg’d 10/94}

If this badge is registered, the Principality would like to release the badge (Or, a pomegranate gules, seeded Or between two flaunches sable) [reg’d 5/98] and they request that it be transferred to Moraig Ann Drummond [reg’d 8/88]. A letter is attached requesting this and a letter from Moraig is also included agreeing to have the badge registered to her as a personal badge. 

Badge Commentary

Knut: Per pale sable and argent, a compass rose between in fess two pomegranates counterchanged.

Clear 

Ary: When it says "a compass rose between two pomegranates" are they in fess or in pale?  Is the compass rose the same size as the pomegranates, or is it clearly a case of a primary surrounded by two secondaries?  In any case, I'd recommend a reblazon to something like "a compass rose between in fess two pomegranates" (or in pale if that's what it is), or "in fess a compass rose between two pomegranates" if they're all the same visual weight. 

Ćlfreda:  We believe the pomegranites should be blazoned "slipped and leaved". 

 

10) Otto Helmsmid. Device Resubmission. Gules, an amphisbaena between three anvils Or

{Name reg’d 05/02}

The client’s previous submission was returned by Laurel on 5/02 for redrawing because the amphisbaena did not match period examples. The redraw corrects this problem. 

Device Commentary

Knut: Gules, an amphisbaena between three anvils Or

Clear 

Richenda: We believe this to be clear of Joseph the Good, Gules, a Japonese dragon volant Or. We are not sure if an amphisbena is a complete change of type or only a CD from a dragon. We count the following CDs: field, posture and type(?). 

Ćlfreda: With the redrawing, there may be a conflict with Abraham ben Aaron (reg 7/80) "Gules, two Sassanian horned winged demi-lions statant addorsed conjoined Or."  There is one CD for addition of the anvils, but we are uncertain if there is a CD between these two types of conjoined, winged monsters. 

 

11) Rhonwen ferch Tewdwr. New Device. Azure, three chevronels interlaced argent overall a wyvern displayed Or.

{Name Submitted on 6/02 MK LoI} 

Device Commentary

Knut: Azure, three chevronels interlaced argent overall a wyvern displayed Or.

Azure, three chevronels braced in base argent overall a wyvern displayed Or

The dark detailing hinders the identifiability of the color emblazon.

Clear 

Richenda: This appears to be clear. 

 

12) Roana de Hauekrig. New Name and Device. Per chevron azure and vert, in base a bird migrant to chief argent.

Roana is found in Scott, “Feminine Given Names in a Dictionary of English Surnames” (http://www.sca.org/heraldry/laurel/reaneyHZ.html) who dates it to 1212. The byname is found in Reaney & Wilson (222) and dated to 1280. The client will NOT accept MAJOR changes and cares most about sound. She is actually looking for Rowan, but believes that Roana is as close as she can get. If members of the College are able to assist with Rowan de Hauekrig, we believe that the client would be most grateful. 

Name Commentary

Ary: Lovely name! 

Richenda: We found the documentation to be as stated in the LoI. 

Device Commentary

Ary: This is clear of Francesca of Bright Angel, (reg. 01/73), "Azure, a dove displayed, head elevated argent," with one CD for the field and one for the unforced placement of Roana's bird.  It is clear of the House of Este (reg. 12/94 via Laurel), "Azure, an eagle displayed argent crowned Or" and Poland (reg. 12/94 via Laurel), "Gules, an eagle displayed argent crowned Or," with the same CDs; there is no CD for the crowning on the birds, and also none for migrant vs. displayed:

From the precedents of Bruce: "[In pale a bird migrant and a <charge>] This conflicts with [An eagle displayed]. There's a CD for the charge in base. There's no heraldic difference between displayed and migrant. That leaves only the possible difference between an eagle and a generic bird. After some thought, we decided we couldn't grant a CD between a generic bird and any specific type of bird. (Rowena MacDonald, June, 1993, pp. 19-20)"  This was reaffirmed with Elsbeth: "There is not a CD between generic birds displayed or migrant and an eagle displayed.... [Elizabeth of Roxbury Mill, 02/01, R-Meridies]"

It is clear of the badge of Tangwystyl verch Morgant Glasvryn, (reg. 07/01via the West), "Per chevron argent and vert, in base a falcon close argent," with one CD for the field, and one for the posture of the bird.

One last comment - from the mini emblazon this is just a generic bird, not a hawk. 

Thorvald: How do you know this is a hawk?  We cannot distinguish what type of bird this is.  Migrant to chief is default, so we should drop the “to chief”. 

Knut: Per chevron azure and vert, in base a hawk migrant to chief argent.

Elspeth Jean of Lochmaree October of 1986 (via Meridies): Per fess Or and azure, issuant from the line of division five piles wavy inverted gules, in base a hawk displayed, head lowered, argent.

Per fess pily wavy gules and Or and azure, in base a hawk displayed, head lowered, argent.

Single CD for field.  Five piles is pily, a field division, not a charge group.  No CD for migrant vs displayed or location on the shield.

Return for conflict. 

Richenda: We do not feel this bird is a hawk. It is much more like a natural dove. As such, we believe it should be reblazoned as a bird. That said, we believe this is clear of Francesca of Bright Angel, Azure, a dove displayed head elevated argent. There is a CD for the change to the field and a second for the bird in base. This change of position is not forced; therefore should count as a second CD. If it does not, then they are in conflict per Dame Elsbeth’s precedent:

The new solution to the problem is to sacrifice some of the theoretical purity of separation of type and posture. Because only eagles among birds are attested as displayed in period, any other bird in a displayed posture will be compared to any bird in a displayed posture usuing the visual test of rule X.4.e for non-period charges. Thus there will not be a CD between an owl displayed and an eagle displayed, because they are too visually similar, but there will be a CD between an owl displayed and a penguin displayed, because there is still significant visual difference. Additionally any bird other than an eagle in a displayed posture will be considered a "weirdness". Henceforth owls, being distinct charges in period, are generally considered significantly different from other birds, but are subject to the preceding visual comparison if displayed. [January 2000 cover letter]

As migrant to chief conflicts with displayed, I would argue that this precedent would hold in this case. 

 

 

Done by my hand this 14^th day of December, 

Paul Wickenden of Thanet, Rouge Scarpe 

Paul W Goldschmidt

3071 Cimarron Trail

Madison WI 53719

goldschp@mailbag.com