Well, here it is, part 2 finally. As this goes online (November 10, 2001) it's been nearly six months since the inverview took place. In that time, the May '01 tour has ended, Mike has made his European live debut playing his Nonkertompf album in its entireity, and a new album has appeared. That album, Wooden Smoke, is both a departure and something very familiar. It's a lovely, mostly acoustic album that you really need to hear because I can't think of anything useful to say about it right now except for "Wow." And now, Mike is back out on the road and I'm seeing him tonight in Lexington, Kentucky. (Nov. 20 - The Lexington show ROCKED.) This time out, the band is Mike, Rick, Bryan, and Nick, a leaner approach that Mike promises to be a rawer experience than the band that played back in May. But we haven't finished with that previous band yet...
Immediately after my conversation with Mike, other BFDers joined in, and by the end it was more of a group conversation, with Mike included. First, I talked to second guitarist Rick Musallam, whose rhythmic support and ultra-tasteful solos add much color into the BFD sound. At the Barrelhouse show the same night, Rick played a gorgeous solo on Natty Trousers that spoke volumes about not only his musical taste, but seemed to me to be a very direct statement of his own character. I *really* like Rick's playing. He's also a very sweet, soft-spoken guy who is obviously very in love with his job in Mike's band.
Here he is:
D: How did you meet Mike and get into BFD?
RM: I was playing in a circle of musicians that Mike was also playing in. I met Bryan Beller and Joe Travers, who were playing with several singer-songwriter bands that I was with in LA. I ended up meeting Mike through Bryan, and set up an audition and got in the band.
D: You told me last night "This is the band for me." You're very happy to be here.
RM: Oh yeah. To me, this is the love of my life. I finally found what I was looking for. It seems like every time I get together with these guys, travel, play, and do what we do, I feel in a way like - and I'm not really a religous person - but I'll say that it feels like God looked down and smiled on me and said "Here, take this. Do something with it."
D: About playing with the Steely Damned. Any comment on the influence there? Obviously the Dan music is an influence on Mike and is coming out more in his music.
RM: Mike is also influenced by Steely Dan, and I am too, but I don't feel totally dependent on that in my playing. For me it depends how I'm feeling, what I'm feeling that day, what kind of changes I'm playing over, and how the overall track feels. I try to do something that complements what's going on. What comes out could be like Steely Dan, could be like the Beatles, whatever I'm feeling at the time. But I have a lot of musical influences in my background. Starting off, being from Lebanon, I grew up with Arabic music, the real ethnic Arabic music. The classical Arabic music, if you will. I heard jazz, started with Brazillian jazz, blues records I was listening to when I was a kid, Eric Clapton, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, all this stuff. Most guitar players might grow up with Deep Purple, Zeppelin, all that English rock era, most rock guitar players start off that way. My influences came not only from that, it came from the European charts, the American charts, it was kind of a world-music kind of experience. One thing I was very thankful for, growing up in Lebanon was listening to radio stations there. There was no format, so you didn't listen to one kind of music all day. You'd hear Bach, then in the next ten minutes it would be Deep Purple and Rainbow, the next ten minutes would be Gloria Gaynor, this really weird eclectic mix of stuff.
D9: No Clear Channel. (Laughter.)
RM: Yeah, and that was good I think. So when I came to the States, I studied jazz for a little while, and I thought I was going to go in that direction but at that point I guess I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. So I ended up, once again, playing all sorts of different styles, until I could find that thing that I could relate with. And what I relate with is what Mike relates with, which is everything.
D: Is there anyone in particular in the band who you latch onto when you get into the more improv-y moments, or are you trying to really listen to everybody?
RM: I feed off everybody, I think they all do too. Sometimes I'll start something and they'll follow, or Marc or Mike will start something and we'll all follow. It just depends on the situation.
D: I think two of the best guitar moments on Dancing are what you did on Joe and I Was Not Ready For You. I was really blown away by how tasteful and soulful that stuff is. Particularly I Was not ready For You. It's a beautiful song, and it's really nice to hear Mike go over to the keyboard for a while, and he leaves the guitar to you. He obviously had a lot of confidence in your ability to do something there, and I think you delivered something really fantastic.
RM: Well, you're too kind. And Mike is way too kind to me. He's awesome. One of my favorite moments on Dancing is the solo on We'll Be Right Back.
D: Yeah, that's the other one. (Laughs)
RM: The best guitar solo ever, you know? I Was Not Ready For You was cool because nobody was expected to play any particular parts, and I just came up with my own stuff, and that felt right.
D: No real direction being handed to you then?
RM: There were a few places on the album that way, and I thought that was where the band started feeling more comfortable with the music, and started going more in that direction.
D: Look forward to seeing you guys tonight.
RM: Thanks for all the support. It's going to be fun. Just want to say one more thing - you couldn't ask for a better band to go on tour with. And a better group of people to be with. It's just amazing, it really is.
Next up is keyboardist Marc Zeigenhagen. The previous night, I'd recorded a short talk with Marc that was unfortunately lost due to my recorder crapping out on me. But I did get an interesting rundown of Marc's keyboard influences. He started off admiring the arena-rock work of Journey's Jonathon Cain and Styx's Dennis DeYoung (!), then delved into Frank Zappa's music, mentioning Tommy Mars work with FZ in particular. When Marc played in the Zappa's Universe project, he performed alongside Mats Morgan, who he also speaks very highly of. In recent years, Marc has listened to jazz pianists such as Thelonious Monk and Bill Evans, who Marc seems particularly fascinated by. Interestingly enough, he also mentioned the influence of guitarists on his overall approach, which he talks a bit about below. Marc is a joy to talk to, I must say. He radiates a joy all his own, much in the way that Mike does. Marc is very intelligent and funny and I look forward to every chance I get to talk with him. Oh yeah, he's a fucking killer musician too.
>p> D: What is your favorite stuff to learn of Mike's own keyboard playing from earlier albums?
MZ: Dolphins was a blast to learn. That was fun. But even little incidental things like the little cluster chords in I Can't Stop, or just some of the background flourishes or the chords themselves in some of the songs.
D: A lot of interesting dense chords there.
MZ: Yeah, it's great for keyboards. But even something like The Old Boat Guy, I really get into for the musicality there, all that percussion.
D: Yeah, nobody really mentions that song. (Turning to Mike.) You even said that recently, that nobody talks about that piece.
MK: Yeah, that was kind of a joke actually. I think I put that into a Keneallist. (Mike's email newsletter.) I just got into Larry King mode. (Laughter) All those unrelated things. Like "That Angie Dickenson is a handsome woman. Dot dot dot." (Laughter) "Nobody ever talks about The Old Boat Guy. Discuss. Dot dot dot."
D: (Back to Marc) You told me last night that you're also really into guitar players as an influence. You play a bit of guitar too, don't you?
MZ: Yeah, I do. Mostly rhythm. My lead stuff tends to be on one or two strings, using a lot of open strings. Kind of a K-Mart version of Frank's guitar playing.
D: Yeah, that sounds like me. (Laughs)
MZ: The Blue Light Special thing. Yeah, but some of the first stuff I learned on the synthesizer with the pitch bender was learned off Star Licks tapes. Neal Schon, and Eddie Van Halen 1 and 2.
D: Back when you worked with Mike on the Zappa's Universe project, what was your impression of this guy back then?
MZ: Just really nice. Very warm and nice. The first time I met Mike was in a club in New York when he was playing with Dweezil. And welcomed me with open arms when we first met, and after soundcheck he said he was going out to dinner with his brother, and would I like to come along? Which I just thought was really spectacular, though I was going off to dinner with my relatives that night. But he was really receptive and giving, just a regular guy.
D: Cool. That's what I think of him too. He doesn't suck! (Laughter)
D: I was asking Mike about you guys using the Rhodes and Mini-Moog on the new stuff. You got to use the Mini-Moog for Selfish Otter, which is just great.
MZ: Cool, thanks.
D: You're trying to do something different with that solo every night, right?
MZ: Yeah, it's totally improvised each night, I try not to think too much about what it's going to be ahead of time, but I know I want to have lots of very strange curvatures, but I also want to have some melodies in there too. Mostly I feel like I'm getting more confident with it, I wasn't real comfortable with it in the studio. I remember thinking I wanted to do another take, and Mike said "If you can get within 90% of the coolness of what that last one was, we'll keep it." I started getting more comfortable with it at Nonkerstock, when I realized I wanted to use a loop on the delay, and do different things with the timing on that.
MK: The loop stuff gets better every time.
MZ: Yeah, I'm getting more used to doing that kind of thing, and turning it into some sort of rhythmic thing. As far as the Rhodes, I think the first time I used it with this group was at Full Sail, when we did our first Orlando show.
At this point, bassboy Bryan Beller appears. Being a bass player myself, I am of course in awe of his ridiculous chops and his even more ridiculous musicality. But I'm even more in awe of how damn *funny* he is. Check out his columns in Bass Player magazine for a taste of that, or just keep reading. The mix of personalities in BFD is a huge part of the band's charm, and it's no wonder why the longest-serving dolphin in Mike's band is still here. At this point, the interview becomes more of an all-around conversation. I'm glad they let me join in. :)
D: Marc, one thing I want to ask you and Bryan both, is what do you guys think about the growth of the band, not just in terms of size obviously, but since '98, the musical growth of the band.
BB: I'll tell you this, there's just too damn many people in this band now, first of all. (Laughter) That's the first thing I want to say.
D: So who goes first? Do you get rid of the singer there?
BB: Definitely Mike. (Laughter)
MK: Now that I stop to think about it, there's way too much bottom end in the band. (Laughing)
BB: Yeah, exactly. (Laughs)
MZ: Do you ever get nostalgic for the trio?
BB: Yeah, sometimes. Well, I only get nostalgic for the trio along with the trio's material. I don't get nostalgic to play We'll Be Right Back as a trio. There's a thing we do now that's a completely different thing, and it's great. We had this gig with King Crimson's Pat Mastelloto, (In Texas earlier this year.) and there's this energy, and it tends to be a little louder and angrier when it's a trio. There can be dynamics. But I love what we do now. Except for the fact that the band's so big. (Laughter)
MZ: And the stages.
BB: Yeah, that's right. It's not that the band is so big, it's the stages are so small. That's what sucks.
D: And like you told me last night, here in a couple days you get to play on a tiny stage and cram all your stuff up there with Project/Object's stuff.
BB: We do this little thing where we count the hairs on each other's heads. Because we can. (Laughter)
D: You mentioned the trio thing being louder and more aggressive, I love what you played on Yogi's album. That's cool. (Any Raw Flesh? is available from Yogi's site and you really should buy it. It's a GREAT slice of melodic heavy rock with plenty of nice twists, great songwriting, plenty of excellent Beller bass, and it's one of my own personal favorite albums out this year. Yogi's drummer Chris G also appears on Mike's Wooden Smoke.)
BB: Thanks!
D: The playing is cool, and I love the whole album. I think he did a great job on that.
BB: And he's a terrifically nice guy.
D: You dig playing that more agressive rock thing. Well, obviously. You played with Wayne Kramer too.
BB: I'm a rock guy, man. I don't have time for this comedy stuff. (Laughter) I don't have time for this zydeco stuff. This klezmer thing. I don't have time for *that*. (Laughter) No, I like playing rock. I was at Berklee, and I made a concious decision where "OK, I'm just not going to be a hardcore jazz player." I remember the day that happened. I was going from one proficiency level to another in class, and I stared at it, I knew what was required, I could see how the modes were expanding and getting into all these other things, and solo possibilites, and being a bass player in a jazz project and sitting there playing while guitarists and keyboard players solo for twenty minutes each on every song, and I just wanted to do something that was more compositional. I've always been more about composition than about soloing. I like improv sections, but I like them in the context of songs.
D: Speaking of being a rock guy, when I asked you last night about playing more chordal stuff (at the previous night's Taylor clinic, Bryan was playing a LOT of chordally oriented bass) you said you don't really listen to anybody who's doing that, though you mentioned Michael Manring, obviously.
BB: Well, I don't spend a lot of time listening to Manring, I just see him live and I'm amazed. If you're going to do solo bass, you better be him or better be that interesting or it's just kinda...dumb. I listen to guitarists more than I listen to bass players, actually. Like Wayne Krantz. Or Michael Landau, I'm a huge Michael Landau freak.
MK: So why do you think you started doing the chordal stuff, was it just out of necessity?
BB: Yeah. You mean in the acoustic duo thing?
MK: No, did you ever play that way when we were the trio?
BB: Uh, not really. But it's always kind of been there. Like the intro of Land Of Broken Dreams is (sings part of it) the kernel of that.
D: Yeah, it was very prominent last night, you were all over the place with that, and it was very appropriate.
BB: With the duo thing I do it, because you've got to fill up some space.
MK: I'm SO dependent on Bryan in the acoustic duo situation, it's just ridiculous.
D: The thing I keyed in on was the rhythm. You're always right there.
BB: And if I'm not, we have a way of making sure we're both not, and then we both are in the same place all over again. (Mike chuckles.) Like on the end of the I Can't Stop solo...
MK: Where we got off and then back on again?
B: We didn't get off, but just that little moment of "Well, I'll go here if you will." (Laughter) "I ain't going without ya!" (More laughter)
D: (To Mike) You told me once that the thing you love about Bryan is that he's so quick and he's right there, like he's so totally attuned to what you're doing.
MK: And that's even kind of a misnomer to put it that way, because every destination is agreed upon. It's not even a question of him having to compute my thought processes, it's more like we're walking side by side in the same place.
D: You give him a lot of freedom. It seems you give everybody a lot of freedom. How much did you dictate any of the parts on Dancing to everybody?
BB: You have to understand that at night he chains me up and beats the fuck out of me. (Laughter) But while we're onstage he's pretty cool.
MK: Even in those circumstances I give Bryan a certain amount of freedom.
BB: (Laughs hysterically)
D: Read into that what you will!
MK: I'm not even sure exactly what that means. (Laughs)
MZ: The chains aren't too tight, they're a little loose.
MK: On Dancing, half of the material was shown to the band like four days before we recorded it. So there's a bit more of the kind of "Here's your part, go and play it" thing. but if anybody, by the time we hit the record button, felt comfortable enough with their part to buld on it and develop it, and it sounded better than what I thought of, then yeah, that stuff is always welcome. But on stage, all bets are off, whatever you can come up with and make it still sound like it's part of the song, is great.
Evan Francis enters now. Let me start drooling once more about the members of BFD - Evan Francis is a fucking GOD among men. His saxophone and flute work have added such an amazing amount of depth and clarity to Mike's music, there's times when you almost forget whose music it actually is. He brings to mind all the greats of 60s jazz sax - Dolphy, Shorter, Coltrane, etc - but he's doing it in the context of Mike's (increasingly jazz-influenced, of course) mutant-rock melange, and he's PERFECT for this time in BFD history. Evan is the ultimate foil for Mike's guitar explorations, a supremely focused and intense player whose very prescence lifts the music several levels higher. All this out of a 21-year old kid. I fucking hate him! Seriously, Evan is not only a ridiculous player, but a very warm person who emits a particular spirtual vibe that adds weight to his words. OK, I'm done drooling now. Check out Evan Francis:
D: (Pointing at Mike) What do you think of this guy? He's given you a lot of freedom. I'm noticing how you both get a lot of opportunity to blow a lot, but you're obviously very musical about it.
EF: Yeah, very free. I can do anything I want. And I'm thankful for that because I play a lot of gigs where I can't do anything I want.
D: Everybody I talk to about the band speaks very highly of you. I really love your playing.
EF: Thanks. It's kind of hard to be self-assured, because there's never been a saxophone player in Mike's band, and I hadn't really listened to this kind of music much before.
D: What stuff do you listen to? When I hear you play, and I mean this in a really good way...
MK: You hear a lot of bullshit. (Laughter)
D: It's like when I hear you, nothing that's happened in the last 30 years of jazz saxophone existed, which I mean in a very good way, because I personally don't enjoy most of what's happened there in the past 30 years, I think a lot of it kinda sucks, and I think it's really nice to hear you pull on this 60s jazz kind of thing and make it your own. That's the way I listen to you, am I hearing that wrong?
EF: Yeah, you're right. But it's all highly interlinked. I listen to some guys who are new. But anyone I like who's out there now has all kinds of stuff in their playing from everywhere.
D: That's like the theme today of what you guys are doing, there's all these things going on in the music. Instead of just shifting from one thing to another, it's all there together, it's very organic.
EF: Yeah. At the risk of sounding very abstract, that's true, you can't really force yourself to do anything. With good music, some people are like "I'm gonna master this. I'm gonna master that." Or be able to create this emotion, or that emotion. But the only real concrete thing that makes good music for me, is when people are trying to help other people with music. And it's not like I'm going to help people with this one note, this note represnts the pain and suffering of people in, like Africa or something. But when people try to plug into the whole big picture by playing, that makes it really good. You can tell the difference between those people and the people who are just trying to make themselves acknowledged.
D: Yeah, with this band the music seems to be very much about giving, about sharing something with each other. It's not really about ego.
EF: Yeah, the other night we were loading stuff out of this club and this dude was helping us so much, carrying all these heavy things, and I was like "You're just helping us so much." And he said "You help ME so much." And that was just *amazing.*
D: Before we have to go, I wanted to share one more little anecdote with Mike. A couple days ago I was in my yard, plating these hot pepper plants, and a couple of my neighbors, these older people come up and we're just talking a bit. Just a nice conversation and they go on their way. And I'm playing Dancing on my boombox through all this. And I turn around and slam my shovel into the ground at the same moment I hear "Tend your garden and give your neighbor some peace."
MK: How cool.
D: Those things aren't coincidences.
MK: Yeah, I agree. I agree.
There ya have it. I had a great time talking to these fabulous people. Hope you enjoyed reading it. Now get off your ass and go to www.keneally.com, buy yourself some CDs, and support this band.